Decal issue

[ATSF_Ron]

Happy 2024 everyone!  I recently scored a set of undec Wheels of Time Harriman coaches that I'm lettering for SP.  I've never had this issue with Microscale decals before, so hopefully posting here will guide me in the right direction with your feedback.  My apologies in advance for the crappy pics, but that's what I've got for close ups right now.  I've used Micro Set and Micro Sol as stated in their directions for years quite successfully.  For whatever reason, I can't get the decal film to settle properly around all the rivet details or even on the flat parts.  It looks to me like "silvering," if I'm using that term correctly.  I've made 3 applications of Micro Sol, poking tiny holes in the film with a brand new #11 Exacto blade to help the solution penetrate any air pockets.  I'm less than thrilled with my results.

One thought I had was the age of the Micro Sol and Set.  Does this stuff expire?  As you can see by the sticker in the pic, it's from 1995!!  However, I recently (last month or two) put decals on several brass AND plastic SP steamers with the same bottles of solution and the results were perfect.

My other thought was the age of the decals I just bought.  It's from a local shop I've gone to for years.  They have quite a large selection of decals, so it's possible these have been sitting there for a bit.  The envelope they came in looks new, but that doesn't really mean much, necessarily.

What are your initial thoughts, guys?  Am I just impatient and need a few more Micro Sol applications?  I've never had to do this more than once or twice.  This is a first time issue for me.  Thanks!

Ron

[tehachapifan]

Looks like the paint finish isn't glossy enough, but hard to tell for sure from the photo. Decals need a glossy finish, or you can get silvering as seen here. Non-glossy finishes can have a very subtle grainy texture that traps tiny air bubbles and creates the silvering.

That said, trying a newer bottle of Micro-Sol could possibly help. Bruce's Train Shop has been gone for quite a while now.

[GN63]

One thing I have done when working on plastic airplanes, is spread a little future liquid wax (I thin it with a bit of water) under the decal to be laid down - if you do have a matte finish on the rest of the model, you can take some acrylic flat paint to tone down any glossy areas, the type I use (no longer available) was Testor's Model Master flat coat - I just did it on a model yesterday (actually an N scale passenger car) and it worked fine

[Rasputen]

Walthers Solvaset is stronger if Micro Sol isn't working for you.

[ATSF_Ron]

It’s not showing well in my pic, but I think it’s pretty close to the same glossiness as my brass locos I did recently.  How about Micro Gloss? I could airbrush some of that, apply the decals, then seal with more gloss? I’ve never used Micro Gloss, only Dullcote.

[randgust]

I had some commercial decals that resisted all attempts to snuggle down after I hit them with Micro sol and finally settled in with Solvaset.   Solvaset is really powerful stuff on microscale decals, after you put it on don't make any attempt to move or manipulate the decal, it will just dissolve it.

On thicker decal paper you'll have more silvering but I've never had much trouble with microscale with solvaset, I'd give that a shot first.   If it doesn't work the solvaset will do a number on them to remove them while solft so you can start over.

[brokemoto]

I always put some kind of glossy coat first unless I used a glossy paint color.  If it is a factory unlettered, I apply  glossy coat, first.  I apply setting solution and let it dry.  Once it has dried. I take a straight pin and poke a few holes, especially where there is decal film but no letters/numbers.  I then a apply another round of setting solution.  Finally, I apply the matte coating for  finish

I do similarly if I am erasing lettering or numbering.  I erase the lettering/numbering; apply glossy coat then continue s indicated supra.

Rarely do I have any problem.

[JMaurer1]

I always have two bottles of the MicroScale setting solutions (red and blue...one is supposed to be stronger than the other) and a bottle of  Walthers Solvaset (that I use as a last resort cuz it is STRONG). Didn't know that you were a local...Bruces has been gone for quite awhile and is still missed in the Sacramento area (even if they had way more HO than N). Anyways, if at first it doesn't snuggle up and stick, hit it again or use something stronger (if you use the Walthers, do not try to adjust anything after you apply it...it will just 'smear' the decal).

[wazzou]

...Bruces has been gone for quite awhile and is still missed in the Sacramento area (even if they had way more HO than N)

I remember when it was the Whistle Stop, prior to Bruce's.
It was in the same strip mall on Marconi, just at the very end, at the time.
I also remember Lyman E Cox's in the older Arden Fair Mall.

[thomasjmdavis]

I would go with the glossy coat suggestions.  The surface in the photo looks matte. The foggy windows and some light gray areas suggest that maybe it had a coat of clear flat that had been in the can too long- I had a car recently where I used last year's can of Krylon clear, and it looked like it had been in a snowstorm when it dried. If the surface feels rough, it might even be worth stripping it and repainting.

Another thought that I don't think has been mentioned- whenever I deal with rivets, I try to trim the decal film as close to the lettering as possible.  Again looking at the photo, it looks (to me, and I do need a new prescription on my bifocals, so take that into account) like the bottom edge of the decal film is on the bottom row of rivets, which makes it more difficult to get good adhesion. While Microscale's film is generally quite flexible, if the decals are old, or if they have been out of the envelope for a while in dry conditions, the decal film can be 'stiffer' than usual. This can contribute to it pulling up from an uneven surface.

One other thing I have noticed in my own decal work. Although it is sometimes counter-intuitive, I get best results when I use a lot of water AND work quickly. Get the decal off the backing as soon as it moves easily, and 'float' it into position. The excess water can then be removed. I was shocked how well this worked when I did a large (4"x5") decal on the side of a building.  And my usual order is (1) paint the area to be decaled with Micro-set and let this dry for a couple minutes, (2) do a wet application of the decal, soak up excess water with Q-tip and let it set,(3) apply small amount of Microset around the edges, and any air bubbles after pricking with pin, (4) if needed, repeat #3 with Micro-sol, and if that doesn't work, Solvaset.

I've used both Future (which is now sold as "Pledge Floor Care Tile & Vinyl Floor Finish with Future Shine"-  We all call it Future Wax, but it is really an acrylic finish) and Model-flex Clear gloss (with an airbrush).

[robert3985]

I've been decaling quite a bit the last month or so, and unfortunately, my Microscale decals are old and fairly brittle.

This has caused me to have to apply several (up to 5) applications of Micro Sol to them, as well as poke holes in bubbles with a brand-new #11 X-acto blade.

However, other than the stripes cracking and breaking on outside corners, my road names and numbers have been setting very well.

I'm applying them on semi-glossy to glossy surfaces (tru-color paint), so I know it isn't the surface they're going on that's the problem.

I'm also "floating" my long road name decals onto Micro Set, which applies to my glossy finish in droplets, using fresh, clean paper towels cut into 8ths to sop up most of the excess water/Micro Set...positioning...then applying Micro Sol generously...but carefully because you don't want to touch the decal after apply Micro Sol...although you have a few seconds immediately after your Micro Sol application to position exactly if your decal happens to need it.

This is working quite well for me.

Incidentally, my Micro Set and Micro Sol were purchased sometime in the late 1990's, and are working just fine.

Good Luck!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks for all of these excellent suggestions, guys!  Bob, I found a newer (2-3 years old?) bottle of Micro Sol and tried that.  Much better results!  I tossed the old mid 90s bottle.  Still, I think it needs another application, maybe 2.  Then I should be good.

On another note, has anyone tried the Tamiya decal softening solutions?  It appears they have different strengths.  I've never used them, but a guy at a local RC place swears by them.  I may pick some up to try as an alternative.

Thomas, it's actually my crummy pic and lighting that gives the impression of foggy windows.  They're clear.  Once I get this all sorted out I'll post better pics.  I'll have to use my wife's iPhone.  Mine is a bit outdated.

[learmoia]

I recently got back into decal-ing after a 10+ year gap, and had similar issues with my old bottles of Microsol/Micro set (And Walthers Solvaset).. a fresh bottle of each resolved the issue.

So, maybe it does have a shelf life?, or depending on how it is stored over the years, a temperature change could modify the effectiveness?

~Ian

[ATSF_Ron]

I applied another dose of Micro Sol. While that was drying, I had one more brass steamer that needed numbering so I started on that. Looked at the Harriman car and the brass loco just now. The loco looks perfect. Harriman car? Not so much 🤦🏻‍♂️

I’m going to remove decals from it , gloss coat it, and redo it. Luckily I only did one side of two cars, so there’s not too much waste.  Looking at the models in morning daylight, I can see these are most likely a satin finish, not so much a glossy finish. Lesson learned!!

[brokemoto]

, gloss coat it, and redo it.

Gloss coat it.  Add the decals.  Apply the setting solution.  Poke holes with a pin, especially near the rivets.  Apply the setting solution one more time.  Apply a coat of matte/flat finish.

Someone suggested using an eXacto blade, which lso works, especially near rivets where there is film but no lettering.  Do be careful with the eXacto blade lest you cut up the lettring/numbers.