Track Cleaning - Again

[John]

DCC Guy, Larry Pucket posted this on track cleaning --- He has a different take on all the crap people put on their rails to magically keep them clean

[signalmaintainer]

I appreciate Larry Puckett, but apparently he didn't read the instructions about No-Ox. Yes, it's a grease, but it penetrates the metal. After 24 hours following application, one wipes the ball of the rail thoroughly to remove all the No-Ox. This application helps significantly to reduce the buildup of "black gunk" caused by micro-arcing between the locomotive wheels and the rail. I've got 11 years of empirical evidence to back that up.

Here's a link to the directions:

https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?18676-Track-cleaning-Linn-Westcott-and-No-Ox

[JeffB]

Agree with most of his comments... 

But I wouldn't go near track with a Bright Boy if my life depended on it.  The abrasive particles in a Bright Boy are somewhere around 320-400 grit, far too coarse.  It ends up scratching the rail head, which gives oil/dust/gunk some tooth to stick to the surface of the rail.

Once in a great while, or just before running my modules at a show, I'll use some 3000grit emery paper to polish the railhead, but only after cleaning with 99% IPA first.  I prep the 3000grit emery paper by rubbing two sheets together first.  This knocks down the sharpest grains in the grit, making even less abrasive.  Wipe clean, wrap a piece around a wood block and rub it over the rails.  Once done, vacuum the track and clean again with IPA.

I've had really good luck for short term, trouble free running...  I rub a graphite artist's pencil over the tops of the rails, depositing a thin layer of graphite on the railhead.  The downside to this is that as your locomotives shed lubricating oil, it mixes with the graphite making a slick greasy substance that also attracts dirt.

Will have to check out DeoxIT...  I like that it's mixed with IPA.  Before I got to the point in the video, I was thinking, don't use a mix of something and water and think it's going to clean the rails.

IMO...  People need to stop looking for one time "miracle cures" for improving conductivity, or to eliminate the need to clean their track.  Just clean your darn track periodically.  There's no secret here, just a little time and elbow grease.

Jeff

[dem34]

I've joined the church of scrap MDF. Works pretty well, but most of the time I'm also working with Unitrak which has that magic coating.

[peteski]

So we have another track cleaning debate.  How many times we have seen this play out?  History repeats itself.  Everybody's method is the best (for them).

As for any oily substance "penetrating metal", I would love to see some real scientific proof.  Metal is a solid substance.  Maybe we're we are looking at this from a quantum physics level? 

To me that is a just marketing shtick or an opinion.  I don't dispute that it actually works to keep the metal surface clean and free of oxidation, but penetrate?  Really? Maybe my definition of "penetrate" is different than theirs.

[shark_jj]

I'm with Signal Maintainer on this one.  After watching Ron's Trains and Things second video which he posted 1 year after putting NoOXID on his tracks I decided to experiment with it since I was frustrated with the amount of time I seemed to spend cleaning track and the sensitivity of N Scale locomotives equipped with DCC to dirty track.  I watched a number of videos about NoOx including the one by IoTT that Larry Puckett refers to (more on that later).

My first experiment was to put it on a rarely used track in my 4 track helix, which has a 2.2% grade and 4 turns.  If I was going to run into problems, this was the spot.  My coal cars are weighted to exactly 1 oz and generally I ran 24 coal cars behind a consist.  I followed the directions to a tee.  Put on very little NoOx, wait the prescribed period, then wipe it off with a lint free cloth.  I then ran test trains up the helix.  There was indeed a loss of tractive effort in the range of 10% or 2 cars.  Could I live with 22 car coal trains in exchange for not cleaning track, absolutely.  The other option if I wanted longer trains was to add another locomotive.  Now to Larry, whose videos I watch regularly and who I respect greatly.  He says the loss of tractive effort is up to 50% and gives the impression that the IoTT video and its scientific measurements opposed the use of NoOx.  That is not exactly true.  If you watch the entire video the gentleman actually recommends NoOx for layouts without grades, and suggests it can be used on layouts with grades if you test out your locomotives on the tractive effort issue and he uses it on his N Scale test layout.  The 50% loss Larry refers to was the absolute worst case scenario with one loco and he never refers to the 10% loss which more the norm or any of the other results or conclusions.  You should watch the video yourself and reach your own conclusions.

I've always had the sense that when it comes to track cleaning, if you had a conversation with 10 model railroaders you would get 10 different points of view.  Like Signal Maintainer, I can only share my own experience.  I applied NoOxID to my track including 3 grades of around 2% in May of 2022.  I have experienced a tractive effort loss of 10%, however, in exchange, I haven't cleaned tracks since May of 2022 and everything is running smoothly.

When anyone asks me about NoOx, I share my experience and tell them to conduct their own experiments on track that is seldom used and then based on their own experience make their decision.

[Chris333]

Rub the rails with a washer and don't use alcohol

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[Chris333]

BTW Atlas makes a track cleaning bar that looks like a bright boy, but is white and far less abrasive. It has grit, but it is very fine. 

Atlas 402 track eraser

[John]

So we have another track cleaning debate.  How many times we have seen this play out?  History repeats itself.  Everybody's method is the best (for them).

As for any oily substance "penetrating metal", I would love to see some real scientific proof.  Metal is a solid substance.  Maybe we're we are looking at this from a quantum physics level? 

To me that is a just marketing shtick or an opinion.  I don't dispute that it actually works to keep the metal surface clean and free of oxidation, but penetrate?  Really? Maybe my definition of "penetrate" is different than theirs.

If you look at metals under a microscope - you will see there are plenty of imperfections .. so the "penetrating" is probably filling those gaps with the no-ox to prevent another substance from taking hold

[peteski]

If you look at metals under a microscope - you will see there are plenty of imperfections .. so the "penetrating" is probably filling those gaps with the no-ox to prevent another substance from taking hold

Ok, if that's what penetrating means, then WD40 or really any other liquid lubricant (like the transmission fluid, Atlas Conducta Lube,  Wahl Clipper Oil, or 3-in-1 household light oil)) will also "penetrate" the rough metal surface in a similar way.  The track cleaning subject can (yet again) be beaten to death. What's old is new again. 

[tehachapifan]

I'm also a No-OX convert (I have the stuff that Bar Mills [used?] to sell). I don't know why or how it works, but I've found I need to clean my track FAR less often than with anything else I tried (weeks or months vs. hours or days). Although I think the instructions said apply it with a finger, I'm careful to not get the stuff on me when I use it by using a gloved hand or Q-tip to apply to the top of the rails only. It only takes a very tiny amount, so I think my container will last my lifetime. When it is finally time to clean the track again, I'll hit it with a brightboy (gasp!) and then apply the No-Ox. I've waited anywhere between an hour to 24 hours before wiping off, all with great results.

[Philip H]

The track cleaning subject can (yet again) be beaten to death. What's old is new again. 

And?  Things can change, people can be in different parts of their modeling journey; someone might have tried something new? Seems to me that its perfectly OK to ask periodically . . . .

[John]

I thought it was a pretty good video - he lays out his case and presents alternatives .

[peteski]

And?  Things can change, people can be in different parts of their modeling journey; someone might have tried something new? Seems to me that its perfectly OK to ask periodically . . . .

I guess . . .  But the various cleaning methods aren't really changing. There is nothing new.  And this was not question - just another presentation of the existing cleaning methods.  I better stop now before I get booted out.   

And yes, John, it was a good video covering various track cleaning methods. 

[jagged ben]

My two cents...

First, we've learned nothing in the past few years if we don't at least look at the chart published here:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mrhpub.com/2019-05-may/online/index.html?page=14

From my own experience, he's onto something.  We started using the CRC Contact Cleaner and Protectorant on the club layout and so far the results have been pretty good.  Much better than IPA, for sure.   (Note: Not to be confused with all the other CRC contact cleaners!)

But also, I found the contact cleaner better than mineral spirits, too.  The mineral spirits seemed to attract more dust to the rail.  So I think it's not just about polarity.  Which brings me to my next point...

Our rails and wheels are electrical contact surfaces.  So why haven't we been using contact cleaners?  They are engineered for it.  Or at least supposed to be.  Okay, maybe some are essentially snake oil, I don't know.  What I do know is picking the contact cleaner on the market  with the lowest polarity is working well for us right now.  (Okay, I'd also be game to try the WD-40 contact cleaner that's supposedly even lower polarity.)

(The dude in the video at top wants to dilute the Deoxit 20:1 with IPA.  I'm thinking he might as well just use IPA.  )

That's all if you insist on using a liquid contact cleaner.  I'm increasingly not convinced it's necessary. (see below)  But probably helps a bit.

Second major point...
If you have a long mainline, make yourself a non-abrasive track cleaning train.  I shake my head at cleaning a whole layout by hand when you can just f--- run a train to do it.   The late great Jim Reising of Oakville sub had a cleaning train.  It's the best way.

The way we've done it is at least four cars with wood pads on the bottom, in front of the locos.  In N scale you need decent weight on the pads; we've got a handful of old Roco track cleaning cars which came with a bright-boy like abrasive pad, but I've replaced with bass wood pads.  I think you could use MDF or Masonite, makes little difference.  But regardless of how you make/obtain your cars, do multiple cars, so a single pass with the train is the equivalent of pushing a single car around multiple times..  Picks up major dirt, i.e. nickel oxide.  The wipe them off with your favorite low polarity cleaner, and sand them off when you can't wipe them anymore. 

In my experience so far, running the wood block cars makes about the same difference as running them in front of the locos and with a CMX car with the CRC contact cleaner running behind them.  Hence my opinion that liquid cleaners may be overrated.  Either way, it's about two to four weeks until we have to do it again.

I'm still reserving judgement on NO-OX-ID.  I tried it on the club layout and things seemed to get worse.  But there's two reasons I think it was not a good test.  First, I don't think the track was clean enough when I applied it.  Second, it's a huge layout and I don't think I was able to spread it evenly over the whole thing.  It did seem to reduce the rate of environmental oxidation of rails in some spots where I was able to observe semi-scientifically.  So my plan is to target it to stubs and yards that don't lend themselves to the cleaning train.  But first, gotta get all that track really clean.