MT 65ft GN gon - truck type?

[nkalanaga]

I have the new MT GN gon, and would like to know what truck they used on it.  It's a 70-ton roller-bearing truck, and should be an ASF truck.  It is not the old 1030-style, and certainly isn't their Barber 70-ton.  Those are the only two 70-ton roller-bearing trucks I can find in their catalog.

[spookshow]

MTL's 2017 husky stacks have ASF ride control trucks. Maybe it's those?

-Mark

[bbussey]

Remember they had to modify the Bettendorf truck for the first ATSF release, making it narrower so that it cleared the stirrups.  It's possible they've introduced a new roller-bearing truck since they would have needed to narrow one of their two existing roller bearing trucks.  Mark makes a good point, as the Husky Stack trucks would work if they are of prototypical width.

You always could switch out to Atlas/BLMA or ESM ASF Ride Control trucks.  Both brands have a prototypically correct width and would clear the stirrups.  You just would need to add spacer washers to raise the car back to prototypical ride height since it's designed to accommodate the higher MTL bolster.

[nkalanaga]

The MT packing says it has ASF trucks, but I looked up the prototype, and it has Buckeye trucks, which look a lot like the new MT trucks.  I couldn't find any new trucks in MT online catalog, but it looks like these are an all-new design.  With their new metal wheels, they roll quite well, although I still think ESM wheels in MT sideframes roll a little better.

They still have the offset bolster hole, though.

[thomasjmdavis]

Are there 2 axle buckeye trucks? I thought the buckeye design was a 3 axle truck (MTL has made the 3 axle buckeye for years, with a truck mounted coupler). Are you sure the reference said "Buckeye" and not "Barber"? A Barber S-2 would be logical, if it wasn't an ASF. MTL has also made a Barber S-2 with coupler (and maybe without by now?)


https://www.micro-trains.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=406

[bbussey]

Are there 2 axle buckeye trucks? I thought the buckeye design was a 3 axle truck (MTL has made the 3 axle buckeye for years, with a truck mounted coupler). Are you sure the reference said "Buckeye" and not "Barber"? A Barber S-2 would be logical, if it wasn't an ASF. MTL has also made a Barber S-2 with coupler (and maybe without by now?)


https://www.micro-trains.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=406

MTL's Barber S-2A is a roller bearing truck.  The only Barber friction bearing truck available today is the Atlas 50-ton used on the Master PS-1.

Sounds as if MTL has a new roller bearing truck style.  @MTLJoe ?

[thomasjmdavis]

MTL's Barber S-2A is a roller bearing truck.  The only Barber friction bearing truck available today is the Atlas 50-ton used on the Master PS-1.

Sounds as if MTL has a new roller bearing truck style.  @MTLJoe ?

The photos of the GN gondola model on MTL's site show a roller bearing truck, and the description says roller bearing truck, that was sort of my point. And per nkalanaga, a few posts up, the packing says it has ASF (presumably Ride Control roller bearing).  The question I was asking is whether his other source (the one he "looked up") indeed shows a buckeye truck (which seems unlikely if it looks like the roller bearing truck in the graphic on the MTL site). 

[thomasjmdavis]

Here is 79033 in its later years:
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1712075

[nkalanaga]

My "other source" is "Great Northern Color Pictorial Book Two", by Scott R. Thompson.  Since I have no idea what HIS sources were, I can't vouch for his accuracy.

On page 54, he has GN's two series of 65 ft mill gons, 79000-79024 and 79025-79049.  Incidentally, the MT car would be a much closer match to the 79000-79024 series, but that's another subject.  For both, he says they have "Buckeye trucks with roller bearings".  This is a little unusual, as the GN seems to have preferred ASF A-3 trucks for their 70-ton gons, judging by his other captions.

On the other hand, he shows series 74500-74999 GS gons, built by PS in 1949, and notes that "there were five different types of friction bearing trucks on cars in this series equally divided by 100 throughout the series:  National C-1, ASF A-3, Barber S-2-A, Buckeye, and Scullin LV."  The same five types are also listed as being used on series 76750-76949, also built by PS in 1949.

The MT trucks don't look the same as my BLMA ASF trucks, but do look like the trucks in the photos.

For what it's worth, the old 1030 roller bearing trucks, with offset bolster holes, and the newer Barber 70-Ton trucks with centered holes, will both work fine on these gons.  Oddly, the new trucks have the offset holes, but have to be mounted backwards, with the offset to the front, or they won't clear the steps.  MT would have done better to make them with centered holes!

[nkalanaga]

I found a photo of an O scale model of a Buckeye 4-wheel truck, from Overland, and it does look close to the MT version.  There seems to be very little online about specific prototype freight car trucks.

https://americanscalemodels.com/O/O_DETAIL_PARTS/O_Trucks?product_id=4423

[Mark5]

There seems to be very little online about specific prototype freight car trucks.

Agreed. Some info here: https://www.ttnut.com/download/file.php?id=12572

[bbussey]

I found a photo of an O scale model of a Buckeye 4-wheel truck, from Overland, and it does look close to the MT version.  There seems to be very little online about specific prototype freight car trucks.

https://americanscalemodels.com/O/O_DETAIL_PARTS/O_Trucks?product_id=4423

Cool-looking truck.

[thomasjmdavis]

Thanks everyone for the education on Buckeye trucks and the GN versions of the gondolas.  So far, I am 0 for 2 on 65' mill gon truck identification (having made a mess of ID'ing the ones on the ATSF gons, which are also incorrect, as it turns out).

I think I am going to wait to participate in any more truck ID threads until I get my next regular eye exam next summer. And maybe search through my old magazines for articles on trucks.

[nkalanaga]

Actually, all I was hoping for was just to find out of Mt was selling these trucks!  They're not on the MT truck page, or I couldn't find them there, and the package insert doesn't give part numbers.  One would think that a new truck style would be big news.

Tom:  Especially in N scale, one almost needs a magnifier of some kind to tell the difference between some trucks.  I have a 10X geologist's magnifier, one of those folding pocket lenses, and it comes in handy quite often. 

[thomasjmdavis]

Actually, all I was hoping for was just to find out of Mt was selling these trucks!  They're not on the MT truck page, or I couldn't find them there, and the package insert doesn't give part numbers.  One would think that a new truck style would be big news.

Tom:  Especially in N scale, one almost needs a magnifier of some kind to tell the difference between some trucks.  I have a 10X geologist's magnifier, one of those folding pocket lenses, and it comes in handy quite often.

I don't think MTL is selling the trucks as such (that is, not packaged for sale), but when I needed additional baggage car trucks (also not a 'stock' item), they found several pair for me in their parts drawers, and the price was the same as the regular passenger car trucks. Try contacting customer service or send Joe a pm. While they don't produce as many "transition" models as I would like, they have been consistently helpful in my modeling efforts over the years, by supplying parts that are not pre-packaged.

I have a knock off visor- and it does prove useful. With my original problem in IDing the truck on the ATSF gon (which turns out to be the MTL 50 ton "Bettendorf"), I discovered the solution, in addition to magnification, is to paint the truck I am trying to ID flat black, to remove the shiny plastic reflections. The major problem for me (modeling the mid 50s) is that manufacturers identify virtually any truck that is post Andrews, pre-roller bearing, and not specifically identifiable as an ASF A-3 (friction bearing) or a Barber S-2 (friction bearing) is ID'ed as "Bettendorf".  MTL has at least now helped by defining theirs as one of the "AAR" versions, although no more specific than that.  The truck I need most (in terms of correctly modeling the prototypes I model) is the 50 ton ASF A-3, which I understand is the Kato freight truck (thank you spookshow.net), although I think only available with a truck mounted coupler.