Author Topic: SW1200RSs  (Read 2464 times)

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lock4244

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2023, 12:53:45 AM »
0
A LifeLike shell will fit up on a Kato chassis. I did one a while ago and don’t recall it being particularly difficult.
With a little work the LifeLike can be made to run extremely well too.

I think I have five of the LL, so I could use them for the SW1200RS shells... the MTL flexicoils are replacements for the trucks so that's pretty easy. But there's the lighting issue on the cab end, and it's not a DCC friendly chassis iirc. Plus I have nine of the Kato NW2's I have no other use for, and could possibly (probably not) recoup some money by selling off the eight PRR and a single MILW shells.

Test ran a LL SW9/1200 tonight... pretty rough, but on the surface it seems to be a contact issue, runs better on curves than on straightaways. Wheels also horribly out of gauge... and ugly.

screeh

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2023, 03:32:59 AM »
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@davidmbedard looking promising! You mention the sill and hood will be printed together, I'm curious why (does it reduce risk of warping?)

Handrails are going to be a challenge,  esp with Athabasca Shops long out of play - I don't suppose you know Allen well enough to suggest he do some etching, akin to the companions to your HO vans? Alternately, could you design a jig?

@lock4244 somewhere there's a  rundown of drop-in upgrades to the LL SWs incl swapping the wheelsets for Atlas GP and replacing the plastic worm with a Kato brass one - and of course I can't pin it down right when I need it...

 

lock4244

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2023, 10:48:06 AM »
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@screeh I was also looking for an thread on upgrading the LL SW9/1200... lots of hits but nothing regarding mechanical upgrades.

Agree fully on the handrail jig, though I do have one or two Athabasca handrail sets they won't be nearly enough. Handrails are my nemesis.

davidmbedard

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2023, 12:16:03 PM »
+4
@davidmbedard looking promising! You mention the sill and hood will be printed together, I'm curious why (does it reduce risk of warping?)

Handrails are going to be a challenge,  esp with Athabasca Shops long out of play - I don't suppose you know Allen well enough to suggest he do some etching, akin to the companions to your HO vans? Alternately, could you design a jig?

@lock4244 somewhere there's a  rundown of drop-in upgrades to the LL SWs incl swapping the wheelsets for Atlas GP and replacing the plastic worm with a Kato brass one - and of course I can't pin it down right when I need it...

3d printing is finicky.   Let me put it to you this way.....

Lets say I want to print a 0.5mm thick wall...a tall one....like as tall as a switcher would be long.....if i print it with supports along the bottom and the back....itll still not be a perfectly straight wall....itll have waves and other inperfections.   Not to mention alot of support nubs on the back side you need to file away.

Lets change that wall to a C channel.   Now I only have to support from the bottom....and the rest prints from itsself because the C channel shape is a stronger structure.   

Now, think about a sill.....its essentially an L piece.   I would need to priNt it vertically and its more than likely going to not print straight unless I support the verticle parts of it.   These supports will leave nubs and would impact how well the sill would interact with the hoods.

Your best bet is to print the walkway, sill and hoods as one as it it essentialy a compound U channel.   It is self supporting and requires supports only along the bottom edge of the sill.   After its cleaned and cured, the supports just rip off leavining minimal cleanup....usually a 5 second light sand along the bottom edge.   No fuss...no fitting...minimal cleanup.

The only issue here will be the cab.   Itll be tricky to get it to print and have it mate up beautifully with the hoods.   

Cab has 2 options.   1.   Just use the stock LL cab......well...that sux for CN modelers bcause of the light/hood assembly.   2.   Print my own....print it at a 45 from the front and make the CN guys happy.....so thats what Im going to do.   It will also accept the stock weight.

With 3d printing,....mating surfaces should be printed away from the build plate.   With the cab, the mating surface needs to be printed at the buildplate....so itll have nubs.   My work around here is to make the side of the cab a hair longer than it should be and have the modeler file it back to fit.

I know this is convoluted....but these considersations were decided weeks ago....

Other considerations are things like the radiator fan grills and such.   I need to make a choice about either printing what is there (a grill infront of some louvers) or model what is seen.....(most photos the grill is nearly invisible).   I opted for the 3' rule and am going to print what detail is normally seen in natural light.   Id post examples here, but I dont own the photos...so....

Etchings...why not etchings for the grills?   Well...becauee in N scale etched grills do not scale out at all.....if you wanted to etch grills in N scale, it would too thin to handle....impossible even as the thickness of the grill space cant be thinner than the material etched.   In other words,a 10 thou piece of brass or stainless cant have etchings smaller than 10 thou.   Anything smaller than 8 though becomes silly thin and will bend if you look at it.

So for these SW1200RSs, ive opted for the following parameters...

1.  Hood and sill one piece sans cab and stacks.
2.  Pilots seperate pieces so CN modelers get their early steps.
3.  Handrail jig as stanchion spacing was not consistant between rs units.
4.  Cabs with either the standard emd light or the hooded loght.
5.  Replacement fueltank
6.  By-passing the stock electrical truck-to-sill system.
7.  Seperate ditchlights that will accept 0402 leds with a wiper system to bring the ditchlight eletrics over to the decoder board.
8.  Microtrains makes Flexicoils....very cheap.  However, there may need to be some trimming of the leading edge of said trucks to clear the angle bracket on the sill.   Minimal at best, but Id rather keep the prototype angle there than to modify it.

Beyond that, there are ways to update the wheels and worms.   There are a few decoders that are as drop in as you can get (albeit with motor removal and soldering of wires to the brush caps).

Personally, im going with Lokpilot 5 micro with a possibility of a tcs keep alive in place of the cab weight.   Im going to try it without the keep alive at first so see if its worth the upgrade.

Thoughts?



« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 12:21:37 PM by davidmbedard »

u18b

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2023, 01:51:36 PM »
+2
@screeh I was also looking for an thread on upgrading the LL SW9/1200... lots of hits but nothing regarding mechanical upgrades.


The main thing to do is look at the inside of the mechanism at the worms (you might be able to gently twist the trucks off to see the worm).
If you see a plastic worm (I think mine were red plastic), then THAT is the part to replace.
Plastic worms are a sign that this is from an early run.   Later runs used brass worms- maybe because I wrote an article showing how bad the plastic worms were  :ashat:)

The plastic worms are not perfect and slightly out of round.  Thus they make extra noise.

The solution is to pull the plastic worms off and replace them with brass worms from Kato.

Then mechanism will them be quieter.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

lock4244

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2023, 01:58:28 PM »
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Cab has 2 options.   1.   Just use the stock LL cab......well...that sux for CN modelers bcause of the light/hood assembly.   2.   Print my own....print it at a 45 from the front and make the CN guys happy.....so thats what Im going to do.   It will also accept the stock weight.

4.  Cabs with either the standard emd light or the hooded light.


@davidmbedard

Don't forget that CN used two different light/hood assemblies on their SW1200RS units. Early units the headlight was taller than the number board hood and there was an attempt to stylize the roofline to meet the hood in a streamlined way, whereas the later units the hood assembly was modified to ramp up to the headlight's height and it was bolted onto the cabface with zero attempt to have the cabroof meet the contours of the light/hood assembly. I suspect that most would prefer the later version, but doing both would be better.

On the long hood end the light/hood assembly follows the same pattern with early units having a headlight taller than the number board hood, with later units having the hood ramping up to the top of the headlight.

I'm not certain at what unit number the change from early design to the later was made, but I can look that up later tonight.

Everything on CN is a little bit different, and often two or more versions of a little bit different amongst the same model  :facepalm:

lock4244

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2023, 02:00:39 PM »
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The main thing to do is look at the inside of the mechanism at the worms (you might be able to gently twist the trucks off to see the worm).
If you see a plastic worm (I think mine were red plastic), then THAT is the part to replace.
Plastic worms are a sign that this is from an early run.   Later runs used brass worms- maybe because I wrote an article showing how bad the plastic worms were  :ashat:)

The plastic worms are not perfect and slightly out of round.  Thus they make extra noise.

The solution is to pull the plastic worms off and replace them with brass worms from Kato.

Then mechanism will them be quieter.

Thanks Ron, I know you're something of a mechanism whisperer so I'll definitely take a look at what my units worms gears are made out of. Iirc, all of mine were the LL/Hobbycraft Canadian run.

davidmbedard

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2023, 02:42:30 PM »
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@davidmbedard

Don't forget that CN used two different light/hood assemblies on their SW1200RS units. Early units the headlight was taller than the number board hood and there was an attempt to stylize the roofline to meet the hood in a streamlined way, whereas the later units the hood assembly was modified to ramp up to the headlight's height and it was bolted onto the cabface with zero attempt to have the cabroof meet the contours of the light/hood assembly. I suspect that most would prefer the later version, but doing both would be better.

On the long hood end the light/hood assembly follows the same pattern with early units having a headlight taller than the number board hood, with later units having the hood ramping up to the top of the headlight.

I'm not certain at what unit number the change from early design to the later was made, but I can look that up later tonight.

Everything on CN is a little bit different, and often two or more versions of a little bit different amongst the same model  :facepalm:

Ill release one cn model and if there is demand for it ill spend time making the variant you suggest.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 02:46:02 PM by davidmbedard »

davidmbedard

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2023, 02:45:05 PM »
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The main thing to do is look at the inside of the mechanism at the worms (you might be able to gently twist the trucks off to see the worm).
If you see a plastic worm (I think mine were red plastic), then THAT is the part to replace.
Plastic worms are a sign that this is from an early run.   Later runs used brass worms- maybe because I wrote an article showing how bad the plastic worms were  :ashat:)

The plastic worms are not perfect and slightly out of round.  Thus they make extra noise.

The solution is to pull the plastic worms off and replace them with brass worms from Kato.

Then mechanism will them be quieter.

A kato worm from an nw2?

u18b

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2023, 03:00:21 PM »
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I had to go back and look at my article.

Back then, I said the worm for the Atlas/Kato GP30 or GP35 was a direct swap.

I looked on the Atlas website and they have two different part numbers for early or late GP35.  So I'll have to do some checking tonight.

I THINK the part number is:  ITEM# 461002
https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-4010-n-gp-30-35-worm-assembly.aspx

In Kato's case, I think the old original run SD40 used the same worm.

Let me do some checking.  I'll post later.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 03:05:34 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Jim Starbuck

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2023, 03:32:07 PM »
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Do an eBay search for N scale, atlas worm, and you’ll get results from seller that train place. The ones for the Dash 8 will work well.
As a note, when disassembling your engine, REMOVE THE FUEL TANK FIRST. It just snaps to the bottom of the bottom of the chassis.
Once the fuel tank is off, you will be able to rotate the trucks being careful not to snag the pick up tabs. The trucks will rotate 90° and lift right out and you will be able to see the worms.
I am at work, but can talk you through disassembly later that doesn’t result in mangling them pick up tabs.

Jim
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Better modeling through peer pressure

davidmbedard

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2023, 03:46:39 PM »
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Do an eBay search for N scale, atlas worm, and you’ll get results from seller that train place. The ones for the Dash 8 will work well.
As a note, when disassembling your engine, REMOVE THE FUEL TANK FIRST. It just snaps to the bottom of the bottom of the chassis.
Once the fuel tank is off, you will be able to rotate the trucks being careful not to snag the pick up tabs. The trucks will rotate 90° and lift right out and you will be able to see the worms.
I am at work, but can talk you through disassembly later that doesn’t result in mangling them pick up tabs.

Jim

Jim...Im bypassing the the stock electrical pickup scheme.....

Chris333

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2023, 03:56:06 PM »
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You can pull down the whole bottom so the part you attach supports to gets filed away and ends up smooth. And inset it a hair so there is a fine line to file to as a guide.

lock4244

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2023, 05:23:34 PM »
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Ill release one cn model and if there is demand for it ill spend time making the variant you suggest.

This is the later version, CN 1289-1397, of which there was a few more than the early version, 109 vs. 89. These (1289-1397) lasted longer in service and would naturally be the more popular version imo.

Rear:
http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=62567&g2_imageViewsIndex=2

Front:
http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=75813&g2_imageViewsIndex=2

dangerboy81

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Re: SW1200RSs
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2023, 10:12:59 PM »
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6.  By-passing the stock electrical truck-to-sill system.
7.  Seperate ditchlights that will accept 0402 leds with a wiper system to bring the ditchlight eletrics over to the decoder board.


 :o :D :D YES PLEASE!