Atlas N Scale Plug Door Boxcar - Rollability

[Dwight in Toronto]

Just picked up three new, just released, Atlas N 50’ plug door box cars from my LHS. 

All three of them roll, in a “sorta, kinda, ok I guess” manner, but I’m disappointed that they’re not better.  Certainly nothing like Kato rolling stock, nor like Microtrain replacement trucks, for example. 

I worked a smidgen of graphite into the ‘bearing’ dimples and, well, it didn’t make things any worse!

The jewel box says “N Scale Masterline Freight Car” (NSC 5111 PD Box Car), if that helps at all. 
I can post a photo or two, but I suspect that many folks will know the models I’m referring to.

Also, the packaging includes a small baggie with what looks like alternative coupler adapters of some sort (a large and small piece intended for each end of the car, so 4 pieces in total).  The cars have factory body-mounts, so maybe these are conversion pieces for truck-mount couplers (?).

Anyway, just wondering if this lacklustre rollability is typical?  If so, I’m wondering if there might be corrective measures that folks could recommend?  Big thanks, in advance.

[bbussey]

Those are equipped with plastic wheels, correct?  Upgrade to metal wheels.

[Dwight in Toronto]

No, they are indeed metal wheels. 

I think I may have erred in referring to these as “just released”.  But they were certainly a new/recent delivery to my LHS - they received about 15 models within the last 4 or 5 days.  The Atlas part # is 50 005 467.

[peteski]

Dwight,
You might as well do some basic troubleshooting to try figuring out what the problem is.

1. Hold the model upside down and using your finger spin one of wheelsets and see how long it keeps on spinning.   Compare it to another model with metal wheels (like Kato), to note how much faster the Atlas wheelset stops.  It is highly unscientific test (since your finger is not calibrated) but it will likely confirm that the Atlas wheelset does not spin as freely as Kato.

2. Still holding the car upside down, check how much side-to-side play the wheelset has in its bearings.  If there is no play then that would likely cause it not to spin freely. Are the wheel faces possible rubbing against the inside of the sideframes?

3. Check if there are any detail parts (brake linkages or brake shoes that are rubbing against the wheels or axles.

4.  Remove one of the wheelsets and examine the pointy ends of the axle.  Does the conical surface look smooth?  Is there any flash in the conical sockets in the sideframes?

This basic check might reveal some possible issues.

[nickelplate759]

also check for burrs on the axle ends.

[Doug G.]

Did you contact Atlas first?

Doug

[wazzou]

Did you contact Atlas first?

Doug

Why? 
He’s not slamming the model or Atlas.
He’s only asking if anyone has a shared experience and advice on how to fix it.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Thanks guys.  I sent Atlas an email enquiry about the small parts bag, but like Wazzou said, I figured that I would get better and quicker rollability advice from TRW.

There is good clearance around the trucks - the wheels aren’t touching any underbody detail etc.

The axle conical tips are perfect (had a good look at them when I tried the graphite treatment).

Spinning the wheels is so subjective, so hard to tell, but Kato and MT wheels definitely spin better.

But I think Pete is on to something re: side-play … there isn’t any!  So, do I try spreading the truck frames outward?  Is that even doable (ie - won’t they just revert back to their injection-molded stance)?

These would seem to be popular cars, so I was expecting to see quite a few “they’re all like this” types of replies!  Looking forward to additional suggestions, please & thanks.

[Doug G.]

Why? 
He’s not slamming the model or Atlas.
He’s only asking if anyone has a shared experience and advice on how to fix it.

Why are you implying I'm implying anything? I'm just asking if he contacted Atlas about the issue.

Doug

[peteski]

But I think Pete is on to something re: side-play … there isn’t any!  So, do I try spreading the truck frames outward?  Is that even doable (ie - won’t they just revert back to their injection-molded stance)?

That's what troubleshooting is all about. 
Yes with no side-play there is extra friction at the axle ends, so they do not spin totally freely.  While the extra resistance is not a lot, with 4 axles it adds up to less than Kato-like or MTL-like rolling ability.

As you mentioned, the easiest thing to try is to bend the sideframes outwards and see if the car rolls better. That will confirm or disprove the theory.  If that works, and if you bent them out beyond their point of flexibility, the sideframes should not return to their original shape.

Or, measure the Atlas wheelset axle length and try replacing them with aftermarket wheelsets with just slightly shorter axles (if they exist), but you don't want them to be too short either.

BTW:  "revert back" is redundant.  Just "revert" implies "back".  My GF (nicely) pounded that into my brain, so now I know not to do that.   

[basementcalling]

Why, in 2023, are manufacturers struggling with the concept that cars should actually come equipped with free rolling trucks and couplers that sit at the proper height?  Don't get me wrong, the new level of detail on top of the line rolling stock is incredible, but if the cars don't run smoothly or stay on the track, then they are horribly overpriced (HO) to me.

You might try heating the truck side frames in hot water and flexing them outwards if a close examination shows the wheels are in fact rubbing on the frames. In the old days, even Atlas trucks just went in the scrap bin and a pair of MT trucks went on the cars to ensure reliable operation.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Why, in 2023, are manufacturers struggling with the concept that cars should actually come equipped with free rolling trucks?  In the old days, even Atlas trucks just went in the scrap bin and a pair of MT trucks went on the cars to ensure reliable operation.

Yupper - my sentiments exactly.

I took my Kato ramp (the one for putting models on the rails), and let each Atlas truck roll down it and onto graph paper, noting where they stopped.  A few didn’t even budge on the ramp; others barely cleared the end.

I then gently bent the axle retainers outwards ever so slightly, and repeated the test.  Every truck scooted down the ramp, and rolled another 2 or 3 inches across the graph paper.  So, a definite improvement.

Fwiw, a MT 1017 truck rolled about 1/2” further than the best Atlas result, and a Kato passenger truck off one of my Daylight coaches achieved another 1/2” beyond that.  The ‘scientific method’ at its best!

And Pete - after running the cars around my test oval for a good 45 minutes, I inspected the trucks, and I’m pleased to report that the plastic had not reverted to its as-molded configuration (LOL).

Just for completeness of this thread, here’s a photo of the assemblies discussed.  Those four spare parts in the plastic pouch are lined up at the bottom/front of the pic.  They are replacement coupler mount extensions.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Why, in 2023, are manufacturers struggling with the concept that cars should actually come equipped with free rolling trucks and couplers that sit at the proper height?  Don't get me wrong, the new level of detail on top of the line rolling stock is incredible, but if the cars don't run smoothly or stay on the track, then they are horribly overpriced (HO) to me.

This is something that is quietly bugging me about a bunch of modern releases. Some of the stuff on them is exquisite, but often the basics are overlooked. The Rapido centerbeams are great examples. From what I remember reading there's some piping or something thing that "rubs" on one one of the axles.

How many early stage or casual modelers are going to be discouraged or turned off by what may seem like, to us, easy to fix issues? I'm sure that's a non-zero number.

[peteski]

So we know the problem  (axles are too tight in the sideframes) and a workaround (bend sideframes out to increase the clearance). Not optimal, but it works.

The real problem seems to be either the axles are too long, or the conical dimples in the sideframes are too shallow.  Or something along those lines.  And I agree that this type of a manufacturing defect should not occur (be caught and corrected before production starts).  But it seems that in today's world nobody is apparently bothered by the "small stuff". Just like many today's drivers seem to ignore traffic laws (as it is so well documented in the Crew Lounge thread), similar thing seems to be happening in the manufacturing world.  Quality control seems to be gone the way of a do-do bird.

[Dwight in Toronto]

This is something that is quietly bugging me about a bunch of modern releases. Some of the stuff on them is exquisite, but often the basics are overlooked. The Rapido centerbeams are great examples. From what I remember reading there's some piping or something thing that "rubs" on one one of the axles.

How many early stage or casual modelers are going to be discouraged or turned off by what may seem like, to us, easy to fix issues? I'm sure that's a non-zero number.

So, so true. 

For me, the worst example of this was finally receiving Rapido’s N scale ‘The Canadian’, after a lengthy pre-order wait, only to discover that the beautiful museum-quality finish, accuracy and truly stunning appearance was overshadowed by the most deplorable roll-ability I had ever seen.  Seriously, these things were worse than Athearn’s N scale Bombardier bi-level commuter coaches!

Wheels were rubbing on not only underbody detail bits, but also on the frame itself.  A single Rapido FP9A struggled to pull the ten-car set.  As per Ed’s point, I have to wonder how many customers ordered a single loco with the reasonable expectation that it would pull the companion ten-car consist. 

The prescribed solution was to dremel divets into the frame to give the wheels clearance.  A bit ironic, given how Rapido perpetually boasts “just look at all that underbody detail”. 

The fix helped, but rolling performance remained below average.  That, and the crappy flickering coach lighting, were unacceptable considering the price point of this offering.  Things that a little bit of QC would have prevented.