What is happening to our hobby?

[Bruce Archer]

I did not know here to put this, so here it is.

I worked at Jersey Shore Hobby Center (JSHC) during the 90's and early 2000's. Every Saturday you would find me there to help the customers. I also bought several collections of both aircraft and N-Scale. When I left JSHC in 2005 and moved here to Florida the price of N-Scale items had started to creep up.  You could go to Atlas and buy whatever part you needed.

But today, $31.00 for a Northeast caboose. Few parts are stocked by Atlas. And Locomotives are well passed $100.00.

I am ever so glad I put out the funds to buy those collections, as I cannot afford to buy N-Scale today. But the question is, what can we do about it?

Bruce Archer
Modeler of the D&H and LNE

[Rivet Miscounter]

I think the biggest difference between now and then is....during the early decades in N, people tended to buy just about everything the came down the pike.  Virtually no focus on purchasing a particular railroad or era, or at least not worrying about whether said railroad had X locomotive or Y caboose.

Unless you have a large home layout or you're a tenured member at a large club or modular group, there's little need for hundreds of locos and thousands of freight cars.   I remember getting caught up in the model railroading "arms race" when I returned to the hobby in the late 90's when that m.o. was still the norm. (albeit changing quickly)

So to answer your question...
1. Buy less volume of items, plain and simple.
2. There is still a vast amount of items available in the used market...buy used, older tooling and upgrade it if that's important to you.  Or don't.  Whatever floats your u-boat.
3. Skip sound, be conservative with buying the ulta-high-detail models, or make other concessions.

Just a few ideas.  Certainly not trying to tell anyone what to do.  But, you asked.

I didn't mention inflation since I'm sure others will, but it's certainly not irrelevant to the discussion either.

[eja]

I buy only what I need, not what I want. 

I have bought very little for many years, yet perchance enjoy my few purchases even more.

eja

[basementcalling]

So to answer your question...
1. Buy less volume of items, plain and simple.

3. Skip sound, be conservative with buying the ulta-high-detail models, or make other concessions.

Good advice, but for those N scalers getting into the hobby through NTRAK or other modular forms, wanting to run long trains is still a thing. A 50 car hopper train was 250-500 dollars 30 years ago if you bought Atlas 90 ton 3 bays. RD-4s or Bathtub Gons now are 25-30 bucks a pop so filling out that train behind 2 or 3 diesels is likely to run you 1,000-1,500 buckeroos. It's harder to find releases of 'beginner" level rolling stock too.  Yes Atlas has its Trainman line (As I sit here weathering a couple of their 3 bay Hoppers and a GP-15-1.), but releases in it are fewer than in the Master line. Athearn now wants 25-30 bucks for old MDC/Roundhouse tooled cars that used to be $5 a piece, plus the cost of MT trucks. I like how Scale Trains does an Operator and Rivet Counter line of engines, but are parents going to drop a C note for an engine for their kid to run and maybe abuse?  It is a good thing the used market is strong. Lots of those folks who participated in the "arms race" style buying binges 20 years ago are now unloading items they may have never used, or their widows are.

To my ear, sound is the single most overpriced detail you can get on an N scale engine. Using Scale Trains as an example, it's about a $50 Buck upcharge from Operator to Rivet Counter level of detail. But adding sound is at least a $100 bump, and none of the noises will ever sound like the real thing in a diesel because of the lack of base. Poorly done details can detract from a model (Bachmann are you listening?) but people are paying a prime premium for poor quality sound. I just don't get it. As for the delicate highly detailed models, just remember that those free standing grabs are damn hard to see when the train is in motion, although they certainly are nice for photos.

[ednadolski]

... so filling out that train behind 2 or 3 diesels is likely to run you 1,000-1,500 buckeroos.

Intermodal double stacks are even worse. About $50 (or more) for one well unit plus two containers, then a 50-unit stack train is $2500 or more, plus the locos.

... adding sound is at least a $100 bump, and none of the noises will ever sound like the real thing in a diesel because of the lack of base.

JHMO, it comes down to the trade-offs.  In some cases at least they can sound reasonably good:
(Note, this sound is all as picked up "live" by the camera mic -- i.e. nothing dubbed in later.  The sound was rather low volume for the ear, the mic makes it seem louder depending on how it is played back)

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... those free standing grabs are damn hard to see when the train is in motion, although they certainly are nice for photos.

I think it's important to design the layout for optimal viewing -- shelf layout  at ~chest height, good lighting, etc.  If you view them from a comparable angle/distance/lighting then it would be hard to discern the grabs even on the prototype.

Ed

[kscessandriver]

I did not know here to put this, so here it is.

I worked at Jersey Shore Hobby Center (JSHC) during the 90's and early 2000's. Every Saturday you would find me there to help the customers. I also bought several collections of both aircraft and N-Scale. When I left JSHC in 2005 and moved here to Florida the price of N-Scale items had started to creep up.  You could go to Atlas and buy whatever part you needed.

But today, $31.00 for a Northeast caboose. Few parts are stocked by Atlas. And Locomotives are well passed $100.00.

I am ever so glad I put out the funds to buy those collections, as I cannot afford to buy N-Scale today. But the question is, what can we do about it?

Bruce Archer
Modeler of the D&H and LNE

What's the value of a dollar from the mid-90's to today... People want to complain about prices, but they don't want to look at the prices of everything going up.

[thomasjmdavis]

What's the value of a dollar from the mid-90's to today... People want to complain about prices, but they don't want to look at the prices of everything going up.

Yes, everything is going up.  But, in less than 20 years, the cost of a reasonably well detail freight car has tripled from $10 to $30. In many cases, for the same tooling, give or take better couplers or metal wheels. Model train inflation is running at the level of medical care, maybe higher. Overall inflation has not been 200% in that time.  Not that many of us have 3 times the income we had then. The only reason I can buy any trains at all anymore is that I am in the later years of a fixed rate mortgage (so my housing cost is just a bit more than 20 years ago), and have decent health insurance.

I wonder if it is possible to gather enough info on an industry this small, to figure out what the actual equilibrium price should be, and how much of the recent increases are due to importers having to pay the tariffs on Chinese goods implemented since 2017, the increases in global shipping costs, and the intentional restriction of supply inherent in the "pre-order/limited manufacturing" system that artificially raises the equilibrium price. 

My advice- if you are looking for a car that was made 20 or 30 years ago, buy a used one rather than a new one. Save your new product purchases for things where you can justify the price- metal wheels, higher detail, known prototype, MTL couplers, etc.  No point in paying $40 for a Bachmann freight car that sold for $2 45 years ago, when it is the same tooling, except for the new oversized coupler.

[Chris333]

What I'm finding is that nothing is available anymore. The way everything is built to order, it is all sold out a few years later. So that will drive the price up if you are the only person with one for sale.

[brokemoto]

Even the older, used stuff is offered at ridiculous prices on FeePay and shows.  Of course, there is the sixty-five dollar listing for a  Mehano locomotive that makes it to the FeePay mocking topic on another forum.  The complaint, though, is that the sellers are listing  even the decent older power, such as LL split frame FAs, for ridiculous prices.  Eighty or ninety dollars for a used single unit and one hundred fifty for a used A-B pair is not unusual on FeePay, these days.  I especially must laugh at the seller offering only a B-unit, used,  for over fifty dollars.  While you will get plenty of people who will buy only an A without the B, it ain't often that you find someone who will buy only a B.

[Scottl]

Modelling consumers have also demanded more detail, tooling, etc. that has driven up costs to manufacture.  Also, the 'cheap' manufacturing in China that has dominated for several decades is no longer as inexpensive.  This has driven up costs beyond inflation rates.

For those who earn their wages in US dollars (which appears to be most of TRW) your complaints about costs pale compared to those elsewhere where currency depreciation and exorbitant postage/shipping make even small hobby purchases a lot worse.

[Southern1970]

Modelling consumers have also demanded more detail, tooling, etc. that has driven up costs to manufacture.  Also, the 'cheap' manufacturing in China that has dominated for several decades is no longer as inexpensive.  This has driven up costs beyond inflation rates.

For those who earn their wages in US dollars (which appears to be most of TRW) your complaints about costs pale compared to those elsewhere where currency depreciation and exorbitant postage/shipping make even small hobby purchases a lot worse.

Can definitely agree with that.  Pre COVID postage from US to Australia wasn’t too bad, but now that postage has gone through the roof combined with inflation and a really weak Australian dollar has made it hard to justify buying direct from the US unless I could get all the items I want from one seller.  Though I do occasionally get the odd bargain on FB marketplace or eBay. 

[OldEastRR]

Just from a US perspective: For me, N scale came around just when I was going into high school (1965), and then it was mostly European models of trains and buildings. By 1968, there was a lot more US prototypes, and I bought an Atlas 1G set. And yes, I wanted to buy one of every type of car Atlas made, just because they all looked neat. During HS I worked summer jobs, and in the summer of '69 I had a good job paying $3.25/hr. (Chicago area). I lucked out with this job as that was the highest minimum wage paid at that time for general laborer.
And when I went to the hobby shop to buy another Atlas freight car, the prices were a couple of bucks at most. So ... I could get a single RR car with only an hour's pay and still have money left over.
And today? What's the minimum wage where you live? Some places it's only $7.65/hr, and even in states like WA it's topping out at $16/hr. So you go to the hobby shop to buy one car and find that at $25-$40 apiece, it's going to take multiple work hours to buy one.
The situation is that corporate America keeps raising prices and making more money year after year, while working Americans get stuck with wages that have been kept low by those same corporations. That's just the way it is in this country.
No wonder kids aren't getting into model RRing now like they had for generations.

[mu26aeh]

Given what I've seen the last 2 days at the shop, plenty of people out there still willing to shell out the dough in the hobby.  Rapido's new HO NE caboose is prime example.  Sold at least 15 over the weekend, and there is another 20 behind the counter waiting to be picked up.

[tehachapifan]

My purchasing has slowed down almost to a stop because of pricing. and I've passed on purchasing so many cool items because of it. Also, regarding the comment above saying you can still get stuff cheaper on the secondary market, I ask where?? Everyone seems to think they can get full retail or well above everywhere I look.

[dem34]

My purchasing has slowed down almost to a stop because of pricing. and I've passed on purchasing so many cool items because of it. Also, regarding the comment above saying you can still get stuff cheaper on the secondary market, I ask where?? Everyone seems to think they can get full retail or well above everywhere I look.

Shows, Bookface, my preferred is off the back of a truck at a North Jersey Chemical plant.