Himrod Junction Roundy Round

[pjm20]

All,
  I have mostly lurked on the site for many years as I gather both the tools of our trade, the time and space to model, and glean as much experience as I can off of the forum. I believe I have finally reached that point to go beyond dipping the proverbial toes in the water. I plan to get some experience of layout building with some beginner layouts. My first one will be a switching layout that uses up Unitrack gathered as a kid, burn up as much old Model Power/Bachmann/misc structures as possible, and relearn me some scenery and electrical skills. With that, I'd like to cut the foam and glue for this and the next layout, a roundy round based on Himrod Junction, NY; for which this report is for. Before I start going crazy cutting up my foam stash, I'd like some feedback on the Himrod Junction track plan, and open myself up to as much peer pressure as possible to get it done, since I am notorius procrastinator.   
  The Himrod Junction layout is planned to be a roundy round, albiet a prototypical one in a sense. This is just to get me a place to run trains that isn't a loop of Unitrack on the floor, and build confidence/kick myself in the @ss to stop dragging my feet when it comes to model railroading. I genuinely enjoy the hobby, but I get analyis paralysis mixed in with my rivet counter mindset, so this is my attempt to rip the band aid off.
  N scale was originally my primary scale for 10+ years, but I have shifted the main focus to HO for the prototype I want to model. With that, N scale is still attractive to me for the usual reasons, longer trains and larger scenery in same space as larger scales, and will always be an interest to me. I have always loved the operations on the PRR's Elmira Branch, so N Scale lets me scratch the itch of 90+ car coal trains with 2-3 locomotives without a warehouse. Himrod Junction was the interhcnage between the PRR's Elmira Branch and the NYC's PA Division line from Corning to Lyons. The roundy round's focus will be the NYC bridge over the PRR and the interchange. From the 40s-60s the PRR and NYC ran pooled trains between Elmira and Dewitt for NYC powerplant coal traffic. This leads me to the design of the layout, which even though is a roundy round, allows me to accurately model the NYC-PRR pool trains and gives me a race track to actually enjoy running my models instead of staring at them in boxes.





The top plan has the extra switch in the interchange to allow an actual siding for interchange and pushes the bridge scene to the left, while the bottom plan just has a single track. Track will be Atlas C55, with Atlas C55 turnouts and flex. I'm aware of the issues of Atlas C55 turnouts, but it is what I got, and I'll run with them for a first roundy round. The top center of the layout is the bridge at Himrod, and I plan to model the tower there as well too. I plan on the NYC line being 2in over the PRR line, with my estimates I can keep the grades at a max of 1.5% if not lower. Min radius is 13" on the return curve from Himrod interchange that turns into the PRR Elmira Branch going under the bridge, with the "seperate" loop as the NYC line going through the middle track of interchange having a min radius of 14.4". The bridge is skewed to an accurate 25% based on an ICC wreck report. I have a Peco double crossover floating in the plan as possible inclusion if that would make this plan more interesting/I'm missing something glaring in terms of "operation". Squares are all 12", so the plan is 3'x10'. Prototypical motive power as of now is planned to be PRR & NYC BLI Fs and LifeLike (Atlas?) NYC FAs. If BLI will make an I1, I'll 100% have those running on the layout too. Largest prototypical cars would be 100 ton hoppers and 60' boxcars. As this layout is meant to be a railfan layout, frankly anything could run on it. Operations, if you will, is the PRR/NYC pool trains running the inside to outside race track with NYC trains on the middle interchange track and sharing the rest of the layout. With the top plan, interchange cars could be dropped off by a local running "point to point" from the NYC side of the interchange to the PRR side of the interchange. Scenery will be trees and shrubbery around the immediate vicinty of the track around the bridge scene, which is prototypical and a vew block, with the rest of the layout being rural western NY of farmland and "hedgerows" as appropriate to break up the line of site. 
   Sorry for the diatribe, but I thought it would be good to give some background. Ultimately my question is if anybody sees anything that will be an issue with the current layout design or an opinion on which track plan? I think the top plan with the extra siding for interchange traffic adds a little more spice to the roundy round without making it a spaghetti bowl. 3'x10' is large, so I plan on splitting it in two, where though remains to be seen. Any recommendations and public harassment to actually work on this are much appreciated. 

[Lemosteam]

Top plan for me. I like the passing siding/interchange track a lot.

[Chris333]

There was a Himrod Jct. on the Erie in Youngstown Ohio:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49066508188/in/album-72157640479663145/
It was just a wye though and not a crossing.

[Tristan Ashcroft]

What a great prototype.
       I second the upvote for 2 extra switches and an interchange track you can play with.  Admittedly, you'd have to get creative to do car storage on the grade part, but the flat part around the curve could be a lot of fun.
       I also vote for the crossover in the back - assuming you have adequate access.
       Given your interest, you may have long since perused Bill Caloroso's Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch, but on the off chance you haven't - I can note that it's a quite well done book and worth searching for.  Admittedly, there's only one picture of Himrod Junction - and the locomotives are all Conrail blue - but there are plenty of pictures of trains from your era in that book.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

So the one thing that's confusing me is how roundy round actually works in the plan.

It's really just one long single track main, right?

[dnhouston]

Top plan for me as well

[pjm20]

       Given your interest, you may have long since perused Bill Caloroso's Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch, but on the off chance you haven't - I can note that it's a quite well done book and worth searching for.  Admittedly, there's only one picture of Himrod Junction - and the locomotives are all Conrail blue - but there are plenty of pictures of trains from your era in that book.

You got me nailed down, Mr. Caloroso's book is fabulous. Luckily I have found an ICC wreck report, a NYC track chart, and a RMC article all on Himrod Junction. The RMC article is specifically about the bridge, which is great to help me scratchbuild it. The only thing I find lacking about the literature on the Elmira Branch is the post steam power. I have  pictures of Fs and some early 2nd gen power, but nothing to the extent as the I1 days.

[pjm20]

So the one thing that's confusing me is how roundy round actually works in the plan.

It's really just one long single track main, right?

Ed, pretty much. You could call going around the NYC loop through the middle track of the interchange a seperate loop, but going from the PRR line to the inside NYC line is the primary focus.

[eja]

Maybe someone can help you get away from that long, straight track parallel to the edge of the table.....

[learmoia]

Ed, pretty much. You could call going around the NYC loop through the middle track of the interchange a seperate loop, but going from the PRR line to the inside NYC line is the primary focus.

Right but with that first design you have a long single line making 2 loops with 2 passing sidings..

So you could run 2 trains in opposing directions.

Very Clever!.

Edit - Wait maybe not.. In the Lower Right Corner, if the middle track tied into the inner track it would work like that.

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Maybe someone can help you get away from that long, straight track parallel to the edge of the table.....

Thats where Ed can design a staging yard

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Can you tighten the radius of the curves at one end? That'll let you make the tracks slightly angled.

[learmoia]

I'm also nervous about the grade between the Himrod Jct over/under and the Interchange switch to the right of that.

[pjm20]

Thanks for the feedback guys, here is a revised track plan:



I reduced the height of the NYC line to 1.5" over, which seems dead on to what it is in reality. With the added turnout at the interchange, that will force me to a grade of 2.8%. Thankfully the prototype ran helpers on the coal trains out of Southport to Lyons (or at least through the junction). Got rid of the straight away and added the additonal crossover at the end of the interchange ala the prototype.

To give some context to the area, here is the track arrangement from the ICC wreck report (and the alternate name of Himrods Junction):



And here is a shot of the interchange, as you can see, quite the test of the hand brake:

[pjm20]

Here is a good shot of the bridge itself and the track elevation (not my own photo): https://www.flickr.com/photos/101186549@N04/49917603818

[Chris333]

You can see the grade on the real thing:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5976553,-76.9549294,3a,41.8y,203.27h,89.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssk21YY4pEMMt0xpIMPaGJQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu