CMR Decals question

[mecgp7]

I appreciate CMR as they produce a lot of decals and some unique printed n scale equipment. Has anyone used their decals recently? When I first tried them, I didn't have much luck. The decal didn't soften and wouldn't hug detailed areas. I tried every kind of decal solution out there and even tried to spike some of them with additional chemicals. No luck.
So, are they using the same decal paper as when they started?

[ai5629]

I have purchased many CMR N scale decal sets, but have only used one of those purchases to date with mixed results.  The set I used was the Bessemer and Lake Erie 60’ Boxcar set.  I had planned on decalling two BLE 60’ boxcars (Atlas 60’ SD cars); one with the US Savings Bond logo and one without.  The only decals I was able to use from the CMR decals was the reporting marks, end numbers and Cushioned Car graphic.  Those went on flawlessly.  So good in fact, you cannot discern the decal film.  The BLE herald would not conform / settle down over the weld line on the Atlas car.  I ended up using a Microscale logo for that.  The US Savings Bond decal also would not settle down over the weld lines.  Microsol and Solvaset did not get them to comply to this minor surface detail.  I saw them at an N Scale Weekend in Altoona and brought this up.  They opened a set in front of me and put it on a car.  Same thing happened.  They felt it settled down appropriately, but clearly it did not.  I did not press the issue, and simply thanked them for offering decals in N Scale.  IMHO the single color decals are good, but the multicolor ones are too thick.  If the multi colored ones are being placed on a flat surface (with no irregularities whatsoever) they may work, but I would have to use a few more to be certain.  Thanks.

Jeff

[nickelplate759]

I have a set I'll try soon (see my recent post on Trainworx undecorated trailers).  The decal film itself looks pretty thin, but the printing itself has a noticeable thickness to it, much more so than some other brands.  I can feel the raised lettering if I run my fingers over it.

[mu26aeh]

I've used them once before, I did 2 Winchester & Western units.  Black with yellow lettering.  The yellow was thick, like @nickelplate759 mentioned.  They laid down fine but if you were looking at it close you could see the raise, especially in the nose strips

[nkalanaga]

Sounds like they use the same type of printer as Tichy.  I've actually considered designing my own rivet strips and having Tichy print them.

[peteski]

Going by my experience with various decals, Tichy appears to use an ink jet printer and (UV-cured), opaque inks.  Sort of similar to what MTL used to use for decorating many of their models (current releases use much thinner ink).  The ink is thick and stiff - will not be affected by typical decal setting solutions).  CMR likely uses similar printing process.

Nkalanga's idea of printing scale rivets using Tichy decals seems quite viable.

[nickelplate759]

Here are CMR decals on a Trainworx trailer.  The paint has a gloss coat applied before the decals went on.




The film is nice and thin, but the ink is thick and a little bumpy.
They appear to have settled over the ribs OK.

[nickelplate759]

I'm working on the other side of the trailer now - it has a door in it.  The  decals are not laying down over the door edges or locking bar - I'll need to cut them.  Not a big deal.   As suspeted, it's the printing that stiff and won't conform.

[jargonlet]

I used their ho D&H ex: EL SD45 patchout set. The stripes were thick and actually bubbled up in a few places. I ended up painting the blue stripe and using micro scale stripes for the yellow. The road name, road number and patches for the diamond went on really well though.

[mecgp7]

I ordered a set giving them another chance. No go for me. It's like trying to apply saran wrap over details. Might as well make them peel and stick. I don't get it, if your selling decals why not use the best decal film/paper you can get? Perhaps certain printing requires certain paper. Too bad as CMR prints a lot of unique sets.

[peteski]

I ordered a set giving them another chance. No go for me. It's like trying to apply saran wrap over details. Might as well make them peel and stick. I don't get it, if your selling decals why not use the best decal film/paper you can get? Perhaps certain printing requires certain paper. Too bad as CMR prints a lot of unique sets.

It is not the paper - it is the ink in the printer they use.  Just like Tichy's decals.  That type of ink jet printgin is not really (as you are finding out) best suited for printing thin and flexible decals.  They use those pritners becuase there are very few alternatives out there for one-of and low volume custom decals.  You need a printer that can do either opaque inks or white ink undercoat, or both.

Microscale still uses the ancient screen-printing method, which is ideal for making decals, it is just cost prohibitive for for single decals. Alps printers are perfect for the job, but they have some of their own set of problems (and are long out f production).  Some laser printers support the use of white toner, but the lower end CYMW ones don't produce very good color decals, and the CYMKW printers are usually quite pricey. Also the toner fused to smooth clear film on decals can sometimes flake off.

To me the Alps MicroDry printer is the best solution, but that is not an unbiased opinion since I own one.

[nickelplate759]

Agreeing with Pete that the problem is the ink, not the film.  I tested the film and it's very thin and flexible.  The ink is stiff, and while it did OK over the slight raised ribs on the trailer shown above, it did NOT do well at all over the door locking bars or recessed door on the side.
I ended up cutting the decal in pieces and applying the pieces separately.

Of the new-ish decal suppliers I've used, K4 decals seems the best - their ink and film are thin and flexible and I like them a lot.  Fusion Scale Decals have a nice flexible film but their ink is a little stiff, but still thin and quite usable    CMR's ink is thick and stiff, and the resulting decals are visibly thick, but their film is fine.  I'll only use their decals if there isn't a good alternative.

I also have decals from Tichy and Highball Graphics;  I haven't tried either one yet.  The Tichy look like the CMR does (you can see the thickness of the ink), but Highball looks like it will be very good. 

[mu26aeh]

Highball is very close to MicroScale.

[bman]

As far as CMR I've been using the customizable reporting marks only. The reporting marks seemed a bit "bumpy" when on the sheet. After applying, several coats of MicroSol and Set, and a flat top coat they flattened out decently. I have a couple sets of P&LE and LEF&C open hoppers to try out still.

FWIW, my top decal folks are ShellScale, Highball Graphics, K4, and Miscroscale.

[amato1969]

FWIW, my top decal folks are ShellScale, Highball Graphics, K4, and Miscroscale.

Yes!