Better Ed's Sanded Grout Experiments

[Ed Kapuscinski]

@ednadolski's photos look tremendous, so I think I might be splitting hairs here.

Oh, we're DEFINITELY splitting hairs here, but that's what we DO!

[Philip H]

But his close up shot shows the sanded grout to be exactly what it is: rounded translucent quartz grains.  Those look nothing like real ballast that is angular and opaque.  Perhaps the size and color is all the really matters and his sieving of the grout definitely refines the look.

Since I'm in a contrarian mood today . . . even at high magnification photography displayed on a high resolution monitor, it looks as close to ballast as you can get for the size.  If a 1:1 piece of ballast is 3 inches in any on dimension (which is probably the average upper limit) then at 1:160 the same ballast needs to be 0.0188 inches.  I can't see that well enough with my contacts, much less my naked eyes, to notice how far off scale something is of that size, and if I'm looking at a particle that size with just my eyeballs I won't be able to make out whether its "appropriately" angular or not.

Which means that @Ed Kapuscinski and @ednadolski have done a brilliant job capturing the look and feel of the prototype with  this method AFAIK. 

So ballast on gents.

[Scottl]

This is an example of a more ballast-looking material on @GaryHinshaw's TBC   https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=24108.msg325821#msg325821.  I couldn't find where it was sourced from (despite Gary's very helpful index on his thread!) but this material is clearly rock and not a grain of quartz in sight.  I would guess limestone.

Combining sieving (ala @ednadolski) and a non-quartz product is the holy grail IMO.

By contrast, grout as a scenery base is a go-to look for me.  Few materials look as convincingly soil-like.

[ridinshotgun]

It's interesting. That quartz look issue is the same issue I have with the Scenic Express stuff I've been trying out.

I don't remember it being a problem on my last layout though.

It's interesting. I think it looks really good in this photo.

https://imgur.com/dDKiYpw.jpg

But not here.

https://imgur.com/9WSwMqV.jpg

I'm starting to think it's all about the angle you view it at.

Yeah the one photo from the other Ed showing what looks like glassy grains is not real pleasing.

I have some scenic express ballast in the medium color that I picked up and haven’t looked real close at it because it seemed to dark to for the SP stuff I am shooting for. Need to look at it closely and see if I see what you are seeing. I also want to get some of light stuff to see about toning the color down.

I think the S&S was limestone but your not getting it anymore. No matter what anyone claims the aren’t selling it anymore. The won’t return any emails nor respond to any Facebook messages. The phone number no longer works either.

[Dave V]

People talk a lot of smack about crushed walnut shells (i.e., Woodland Scenics), but the individual "stones" are opaque like they should be.

[ednadolski]

This is an example of a more ballast-looking material on @GaryHinshaw's TBC   https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=24108.msg325821#msg325821.  I couldn't find where it was sourced from (despite Gary's very helpful index on his thread!) but this material is clearly rock and not a grain of quartz in sight.  I would guess limestone.

Yes, that is the Smith & Son brand, which is now defunct and unavailable for the last few years.  And IIRC ( @GaryHinshaw  please correct me here) Gary wasn't pleased with the variations in the last batch that he received.

Hence, resorting to experimenting with the grout.....

Ed

[ednadolski]

Limestone screenings are pretty common at landscaping places, at least where I've lived.  They also sell it as a soil amendment in a finer form but I am not sure how fine it really is.

Unless you find something that is mostly fines/dust, I'd suspect that the vast majority of it would be far too large to use as ballast.

Ed

[Scottl]

Unless you find something that is mostly fines/dust, I'd suspect that the vast majority of it would be far too large to use as ballast.

Ed

Here is the kind of thing I was suggesting.  It states on package 99% finer than #10 Tyler (about #12 US) so it is probably coarser than the "dust" description.  Not especially cheap, but a kg will go a long ways.  Dolomite is just a variant of limestone.  Bags of this stuff at garden centers are likely a lot cheaper and bigger, but it serves as an example.

https://www.amazon.ca/Young-Urban-Farmers-Dolomite-1kg/dp/B08V9GV1H2

[Scottl]

This reminds me that silicon carbide powders are available at coarse sizes like #60 and #80.  It is a dark gray, angular grain and dense enough to not float.  We used to get 5 kg bottles and 20 kg bags in the lab for grinding sections and it was very cheap.  I'm sure Harbor Freight or similar stores would stock it.

[ednadolski]

Almost just for grins, I decided to see what it looked like after a spritz of Dullcote.   I'm not really sure I see much difference, but it seems to me that the uniformity of a single color such as this sample is perhaps somewhat accentuating the quartz-ish look.   So I definitely need to try at least a 3-4 color mix, as well as a light airbrushing of the grayish grime that typically accumulates on this sort of track.  That plus perhaps a very subtle drybrushing/highlighting.

The darker RHS was coated with the india ink & alcohol mixture.









Ed

[Angus Shops]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I use Woodland Scenics ‘Gravel, fine gray’ (product # C1286). This is a mineral product, not the crushed walnut shell stuff, although the packaging includes the allergy warning “contains tree nut by-products”. It has excellent particle size and texture (not rounded) for n scale ballast, good colour (variation in tone), and is completely opaque. Also comes in ‘buff’. It’s part of their “road systems” product line and it’s supposed to be HO road gravel. The lack of colour options is a drawback and the gray colour is definitely “new mainline”, but if I want to darken it up for secondary track I give it a quick pass with some Vallejo Panzer Grey in my airbrush.

[ednadolski]

The color trials continue.....  I'm thinking #7 and #8 are getting close, but still need more variations/contrast.  #5A+B look too monochrome in person, and #6 also is clearly too dark.

Looks like the dio is running out of room tho.....



Ed

[ednadolski]

Still trying (tho no longer bothering with rail).....   



Ed

[CRR Chase]

-have any of you dabbled with "ballast magic" ? is this a similar methodology?

[ednadolski]

Getting to be just about out of arrows with this stuff....  even with weathering it still looks more like half-melted sugar granules than anything else....   

(The stuff on the left side is the Smith and Son P&O limestone.)



Ed