A fix for the rapido canadian (this has been tested!)

[simsuper80]

So I posted a thread a while back (prematurely) about a fix for the rapido canadian cars. They rolled much better, but they still de-railed frequently. Posting that thread before testing the train on a layout was not the smartest move.😆

This current solution has been tested on a layout, and it was a success. It turns out that replacing the wheels with kato passenger car wheels not only made them roll much better Than with the original wheels, but they don't de-rail! You have to remove one of the wheel pickups due to the longer axle length of the kato wheel, and if you alternate which pickup you remove, you can still keep the lighting.

Before this, I had tried all the other solutions that were mentioned before, but the de-railment problems continued to happen.

[peteski]

Interesting.  I wonder if this is because Kato passenger wheels likely have slightly deeper flanges?  Or maybe slightly different wheel profile? I can't think of anything else that is all that different different between those wheelsets.

As for the difference on axle length, if you have the means to do it, you could shorten the Kato axles by pressing them in into the wheel slightly.  We have been doing this on Kato diesel locomotive wheelsets for retrofitting them in Atlas trucks.  That way you could keep full electric pickup on the trucks.

The info on how to do it starts around https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33107.msg379288#msg379288

[simsuper80]

I see, interesting. I might give that a try. Does that method work on regular wheels as well as locomotive wheels?

I also have a video of 1 rapido f40 pulling 19 cars

[peteski]

I see, interesting. I might give that a try. Does that method work on regular wheels as well as locomotive wheels?

If by "regular" you mean other brands of wheels which have 1-piece solid metal axles, then no.  This works only on wheels which have half-axles and plastic axle muff in the center. The half-axles also have to be separate metal rods pressed into the metal wheel.  Some other half-axle designs have wheel and half axle machined from a single  piece of metal. Obviously, in that design the axle cannot be pushed inwards.

Kato passenger wheels are made like Kato locomotive wheels - that's why that method of changing axle end length works for them.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Good stuff.  And as Peteski mentioned, if those Kato axles can be ever so slightly made to fit without having to remove a wiper assembly from the Rapido truck, that would be a big win.  Doubly so, if the Kato wheels might even, somehow miraculously, deliver superior flicker-free coach lighting. 

I remember commenting, back when The Canadian coaches first came out, that a single Rapido FP9A would not pull the 10-car set, but that the same loco could effortlessly haul my 12-car Kato Morning Daylight coaches all day long. 

I’m guessing that the Kato online parts ordering service is still unavailable - I gave up checking on it some time ago.  Gotta wonder what the heck is taking so long with that … pretty disappointing. 

[peteski]

I’m guessing that the Kato online parts ordering service is still unavailable - I gave up checking on it some time ago.  Gotta wonder what the heck is taking so long with that … pretty disappointing.

I would say "poor planning".  What would have made more sense was to keep the old site running while developing and testing the new site. Then when ready, switch to the new one.  Going by how long it the outage has been so fat, it seems like they shut down the new site. then they started developing the new site.

I'm also surprised with how many modelers have problems with flicker in track-powered interior lighting.  I have the Kato SP Morning Daylight set with standard Kato LED lighting units installed, and I do not see any flicker running it on NTRAK layouts, or on my friend's layout.  Same with the NYC 20th Century Ltd. observation car lighting. Just ran it on friend's layout and not a hint of flicker.  But on NTRAK layout we clean the track before the show, and my friend keeps his track clean.  I also clean all the wheel treads on all the cars after running it couple of times.  But iI have seen other member's Kato trains on the same NTRAK layout, and they are flickering. I bet their wheels are dirty.

[nickelplate759]

I see, interesting. I might give that a try. Does that method work on regular wheels as well as locomotive wheels?

I also have a video of 1 rapido f40 pulling 19 cars

It works on Kato passenger car wheels. 

[Dwight in Toronto]

Pete - my diy LED lighting for my Morning Daylight coaches is also flicker-free.  Why Rapido didn’t spend the extra pennies and put a capacitor in each of The Canadian coaches is unfathomable. 

[peteski]

Pete - my diy LED lighting for my Morning Daylight coaches is also flicker-free.  Why Rapido didn’t spend the extra pennies and put a capacitor in each of The Canadian coaches is unfathomable.

But stock Kato lighting units don't  have any caps, and they don't  flicker if you keep the wheels and track clean.  Rapido trucks use similar design to Kato - they lights should also not flicker. Maybe the wheel blackening on rapido wheels is not very conductive?

[MK]

But stock Kato lighting units don't  have any caps, and they don't  flicker if you keep the wheels and track clean.

This!  When I first dealt with the Kato lighting units and the first time they started to flicker I was like "WTF?  What a piece of crap!  Flickering already?".  This was running at a train show.  I think the crowd was going into epileptic seizures!   

When I got home and tested all the cars, not a single one was flickering!  What???!!!!!  Putting 1 and 1 together, I surmised it was dirty tracks.  At the next show where this happened, I took a Brite Boy and scrubbed the tracks (not my modules).  No more flickering!

[thomasjmdavis]

Not meaning to rain on the parade, and I am certainly NOT a materials expert, but I see two potential problems.

First, if the trucks have a pickup on one side, but not the other, and the side with the pickup is reversed on the second truck, the cars are going to be slightly "skewed", because the truck center relative to the bolster will be offset by the thickness of the pickup, plus any "spring" in the pickup. Maybe this is so small as to be imperceptible, but it appears, in the photos, that this would be some number of N scale inches, and where the car ends of adjacent cars would not line up.

The second thing that would worry me if I were doing this, is that the inside face of the truck frame is molded to accept the pickup, and the "cone" would be larger and shaped to receive the "dimple" on the back of the pickup, and that over time, the axle point on that side will wear away the journal and the fit become sloppy.

My inclination would be to go with Peteski and Dwight's suggestion, and shorten up the Kato axles by the necessary thousandths, and retain both pickups on the truck.

[simsuper80]

Not meaning to rain on the parade, and I am certainly NOT a materials expert, but I see two potential problems.

First, if the trucks have a pickup on one side, but not the other, and the side with the pickup is reversed on the second truck, the cars are going to be slightly "skewed", because the truck center relative to the bolster will be offset by the thickness of the pickup, plus any "spring" in the pickup. Maybe this is so small as to be imperceptible, but it appears, in the photos, that this would be some number of N scale inches, and where the car ends of adjacent cars would not line up.

The second thing that would worry me if I were doing this, is that the inside face of the truck frame is molded to accept the pickup, and the "cone" would be larger and shaped to receive the "dimple" on the back of the pickup, and that over time, the axle point on that side will wear away the journal and the fit become sloppy.

My inclination would be to go with Peteski and Dwight's suggestion, and shorten up the Kato axles by the necessary thousandths, and retain both pickups on the truck.

I probably will give that a try. I had no idea you could even do that, as I thought the wheel and axle (outside part) was one piece.

[peteski]

I probably will give that a try. I had no idea you could even do that, as I thought the wheel and axle (outside part) was one piece.

Not Kato.  Wheels are likely plated/blackened brass, while the axles are stainless steel.  If you examine them under good magnification and strong light (which is what I  always do), you can see that they are different parts (and even have different color).  The axle is natural stainless steel color, while the wheels are blackened.

I have not seen many examples where axles and wheels are single machined piece.  One that sticks in my mind is Con-Cor Aerotrain, and I believe some British prototype (from Hornby maybe?).

[simsuper80]

Hmm, I wonder if it requires a lot of force to push them in

[peteski]

Hmm, I wonder if it requires a lot of force to push them in

If you followed the  link I posted earlier (about the diesel loco wheels) it shows what needs to be done. Yes, it is a tight press fit.  It is also important to apply the force perpendicular the the wheel back (or parallel to the axle).  Also important is not to deform the pointy end of the axle (as shown in the other thread). I have a small arbor press perfect for the job, but I believe later in that thread someone found alternatives.