Kato FEF 844 front coupler

[Jbub]

Quick question to FEF owners. Has anyone added an aftermarket coupler to the front of the loco? I'd like to double head with the Big Boy and seem to have misplace the dummy coupler that Kato supplied with engine.

[robert3985]

Prototypically, an FEF "helper" on the front of a UP freight, would be at the very front in a "double-heading" protocol.  The Big Boy would be the prime mover...always...unless it was two Big Boys double-heading.

This means that for double-heading, on your FEF, you only need the rear coupler.

Frankly, I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of an FEF on the front of a UP freight with a Big Boy as the prime mover, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done.
 
But, I've seen several photos of shiny, freshly shopped FEF's shoving on the rear of UP freights, which FEF's did quite often when fresh out of the shop (in their heyday) in order to test the adjustments and repairs that might have been done, before being used as the prime mover on their normally pulled passenger trains.

The caboose was either located to the front of the helper FEF, or coupled on the rear of the helper FEF, depending on the district and the type of the caboose.

Photo (1) - FEF-3 844 shoving on the rear of of a UP freight at Wasatch Utah, the top of the grade, where she will be uncoupled and head for the Wasatch Wye through spring switches, then run light back to Ogden.


Adding an "aftermarket" pilot coupler to KATO's FEF-3 will be a difficult job, since there is absolutely no provision for screwing any coupler into the pilot.

In fact, the dummy coupler part that KATO supplies with their FEF-3 completely bypasses being connected to the smokebox/pilot assembly, and instead attaches to a slot/lock-pin/extension that connects it to the front of the lead truck, so that both the dummy coupler and the lower pilot swivel with the lead truck...and I think it looks like crap.

Minimally, you would have to cleanly cut out the cast-on coupler pocket door that's cast on to the fine lower pilot part that simply snaps on and off of the upper pilot assembly (not an easy task removing the "door" as there are internal bracings and attachment points that need to be retained), then take measurements and cut a spacer that fits into the upper pilot assembly and does not constrain the snap-on attachment of the lower pilot part, drill and tap a screw/hole in said spacer at some point, which may need to be done simultaneously to the upper pilot assembly for enough "meat" to give needed strength and stability to the soon-to-be-attached coupler, its coupler pocket and your fabricated spacer.  Then, you'd snap in the modified lower pilot part (with the coupler cover doors removed), position the new coupler and your spacer, and screw in & tighten the mounting screw.  All of this and also making sure the new coupler is at the right height when mounted.

To be clear, I haven't ever done this, nor do I plan on it, but if I were to do it, this would be my starting strategy.

Although the stock front pilot coupler looks like crap when installed, it IS functional for whatever you'd need a coupler for on the front of your KATO FEF-3, and you wouldn't be destroying the non-couplered lower pilot part's appearance for when you don't need or want a front coupler.

I'd bite the time bullet and get a new FEF-3 dummy coupler part from KATO, instead of investing all that time and effort into modifying (either successfully or unsuccessfuly) the non-couplered lower pilot part, drilling & tapping a hole in the upper pilot assembly too.

Photo (1) - Both non-couplered and dummy-couplered KATO parts for their FEF-3, one attaches to the upper pilot assembly, the other to the front of the lead truck...


Additionally, after thinking about it a bit more, the reason KATO didn't make a dummy coupler for the pilot on their FEF-3 is maybe because the whole pilot/smokebox assembly is pretty fragile and it all assembles without glue using tiny snap tabs, pins & slots...quite ingenious actually...but, not engineered at all for the stresses of pulling a load of cars, or pushing on the rear of a heavy model train.  I'd say that their answer to the problem, with the lower pilot and coupler part attaching to the lead truck isn't adequate either as the lead truck is held on with a single, loosely attached shaft that keys into the metal loco frame.

Might not be a great idea to put a coupler on the front of this engine.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

I suspect the reason for that pilot-truck-mounted coupler was to  accommodate running this rather long model on Unitrak's tight curves.  That is likely the main reason for the unusual design of their Big Boy, where each engine has a different pivot point.  Kato makes sure their models operate on their Unitrak.

[robert3985]

I suspect the reason for that pilot-truck-mounted coupler was to  accommodate running this rather long model on Unitrak's tight curves.  That is likely the main reason for the unusual design of their Big Boy, where each engine has a different pivot point.  Kato makes sure their models operate on their Unitrak.

@peteski , Peter, I'm confident also that's one of the reasons for sure.

However, it's not a very sturdy design and coupling forces applied to it snapped into the lead truck would probably cause the truck to derail, which is a sort of a problem anyway I've read (I've never had it happen on my layout).

Although I'm usually impressed with the way KATO engineers their locomotives, and I think their FEF-3 is one of the best-made N-scale plastic locomotives ever made, the design of their front coupler for this model is obviously substandard...no matter what the reason.

But, for me, I never plan on double-heading or having one of my KATO FEF-3's do helper service, so any potential problems with the design aren't relevant for me.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Cajonpassfan]

Well, whatever indignities the FEF's suffered at the end of their lives, in my book (and on my layout) the 80" drivered UP 4-8-4's are passenger ROAD engines, as god intended. Occasionally, they did need helper power to get over major mountain passes, see pic below of the Utahn on Cajon in 1948 by Chard Walker. That required a working coupler on the pilot, so I too am looking for a way to install one. Maybe a 906?
Otto K.

[robert3985]

Well, whatever indignities the FEF's suffered at the end of their lives, in my book (and on my layout) the 80" drivered UP 4-8-4's are passenger ROAD engines, as god intended. Occasionally, they did need helper power to get over major mountain passes, see pic below of the Utahn on Cajon in 1948 by Chard Walker. That required a working coupler on the pilot, so I too am looking for a way to install one. Maybe a 906?
Otto K.

@Cajonpassfan , Otto, the OP was wanting to doublehead a Big Boy and an FEF with the Big Boy on the front.  I don't think that ever happened.

Of course FEF's doubleheaded when more tractive effort was needed on fast passenger trains...and even when the train might have been pulled by E-units...in their later years, FEF's were often called upon to be help at the front of passenger trains.

As for the "type" of coupler for the KATO FEF-3, from my observations with a disassembled engine, it doesn't appear that there's a "good" way of adding a coupler to the pilot because of the engine's design.   

Even KATO's front pilot dummy coupler is just a makeshift way of putting something on the front of the model that will couple up, but being attached to the front of the lead truck, rather than to the pilot assembly for whatever reasons as Peter has pointed out.  Then the lead truck being barely attached to the frame only by that little shaft with a bar across the top that keys into a matching slot in the frame...I'm pretty sure it won't pull much without the lead truck derailing minimally, or breaking the keyed shaft.

Modifying the snap-in closed lower pilot would be a PITA, and if you've ever had the smokebox assembly off of the KATO model, the whole snap-in pilot assembly hangs way below the center of the boiler and isn't connected to the locomotive frame in any way other than how it all snaps into the boiler at the boiler/smokebox junction.  This means it isn't sturdy AT ALL and easily flexes if you pull on the bottom of the pilot when the engine is together...which means that any coupler attached to the smokebox/pilot assembly is going to come uncoupled if there's much force applied to it at where the coupler attaches.  The model's pilot assembly isn't engineered at all for a coupler, which is pretty obvious when you take it apart and examine it.

If it were me and I wanted to have historically correct doubleheaded FEF's on one of my passenger trains, I'd just use the supplied dummy coupler and see how it works since it doesn't cost me anything, and because the engine it's attached to is the rear engine, its appearance will be relative concealed.

Since I model the Wahsatch Grade, for me, it is more likely that FEF's would occasionally be tested as a helper shoving on the rear of a Big Boy powered freight (since I have photographic evidence of it)...so, since the only criterium for me would be that the two engines be speed matched, there's very little stress on the supplied front KATO coupler accessory, and since it's coupled to the rear of the train, the ugliness of it won't be too evident.

Maybe one day I'll test the combination when I'm not running a 3700 Class Challenger shoving on the rear.  Or, maybe not.

What I'm saying in my typical long-winded way, is that if you've got the supplied KATO front coupler adapter that comes with the engines, there's really no need for measuring, cutting, modifying, drilling, tapping, screwing a working coupler into the pilot assembly, when with the adapter, all you do is snap off the lower pilot from the upper pilot assembly, then snap on the adapter to the front of the lead truck.  Easy...ugly, but easy.

And who knows?  Maybe I'm totally wrong about the potential problems with the lead truck when snapped to the coupler accessory...maybe it will actually track better when coupled up to something...maybe.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Jbub]

Robert, thanks for your input! My intent isn't to recreate operations from the 40's but to recreate the excursion in 2019 when they came into Ogden. 4014, Jim Adams facing the wrong way, 844, Joe Jordan, an Sd70ACe (8937 was used) and then an inaccurate excursion consist.
I did find the dummy coupler, to which I agree is not a well thought out design, but since the loading will most likely be negligible with proper speed matching I'll stick with it.

[nscaler711]

@Jbub did you see the video of 4014 pushing a stalled train yet?
I'd say after that there's a decent reason for a working coupler in the pilot.
I will say the BLI Big Boy has a coupler that flips out like the prototype and if you are careful a MTL true scale coupler does mate with it.
This maybe one of the few times I don't agree with Spookys review on a locomotive I think he just got a lemon this time around, but I picked one up along with a Kato... I can wholeheartedly say I think I prefer the BLI. Mine hasn't given me an ounce of trouble... *Knocks on wood*
I'll mention here that I'm a Kato nut, I'd sell everything that isn't Kato if Kato made other locomotives with 4014 being the exception.
My only concern is speed matching the BLI to anything Kato, it runs so slow... But creeps at 1 speed step very well.

[robert3985]

Robert, thanks for your input! My intent isn't to recreate operations from the 40's but to recreate the excursion in 2019 when they came into Ogden. 4014, Jim Adams facing the wrong way, 844, Joe Jordan, an Sd70ACe (8937 was used) and then an inaccurate excursion consist.
I did find the dummy coupler, to which I agree is not a well thought out design, but since the loading will most likely be negligible with proper speed matching I'll stick with it.

Ohhh...I keep forgetting about modern day excursion service lashups!...even when I post my video of them doubleheading at Echo...duhhhhh... 

Let me re-post that video on this thread....

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Glad you found the coupler adapter!  That saves a whole lot of time and effort....

Post photos when you get 'em running...