Author Topic: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?  (Read 3733 times)

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robert3985

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2023, 02:24:12 AM »
+1
Clover House used to sell N scale PC ties, in foot strips, but I haven't looked at their catalog in years.  They may still have them.

Clover house is not listing any N-scale PCB ties.  They do have both standard gauge stained pine ties and redwood turnout ties in N-scale as well as their "gap master" PCB rail stabilizing tie thingy in both N and Nn3.

Too bad, they were once a valuable resource.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Jscottw

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2023, 09:19:54 AM »
0
I mostly have used the Fast Tracks PC ties.  How are the Mt. Albert wood ties in N scale?

John

Bill H

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2023, 11:10:13 AM »
0
I model exclusively in code 40. Fast tracks or hand laid turnouts and ME code 40 flex.

Here is another source of wood ties that has worked for me in the past.

https://www.kapplerusa.com/y2k/p-n-ties.htm

Jscottw

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2023, 02:30:20 PM »
0
For the switch Throwbar does anyone have a better idea than a piece of PC tie?  I have always found it to be the weak point.

John

peteski

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2023, 02:51:42 PM »
0
For the switch Throwbar does anyone have a better idea than a piece of PC tie?  I have always found it to be the weak point.

John

@robert3985  has that problem solved.  He will likely chime in again and describe his method.
. . . 42 . . .

Angus Shops

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2023, 08:56:32 PM »
0
I find the Fast Tracks pc ties kind of annoying - they are too short to get more than one or two ties out each piece (and certainly not more than one when being used for the longer switch ties) and they generate a lot of waste. An alternate source of longer length pieces would be helpful. I’ve cut longer lengths out of sheet circuit board material, but it’s not one of my favourite modelling tasks.

nkalanaga

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2023, 02:14:22 AM »
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Bob:  Thank you! Good thing I bought extra, in case I have to make repairs in the future.
N Kalanaga
Be well

JeffB

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2023, 07:40:49 AM »
0
For the switch Throwbar does anyone have a better idea than a piece of PC tie?  I have always found it to be the weak point.

John

I solder tabs onto the switch point rails and connect them to the PC throwbar with small pins to form a hinge.  Prevents popped solder joints due to stress from throwing a rigid point rail.  It also requires less force to throw the points. 

I have turnouts that are over 20yrs old that have never popped a solder joint due to this modification.

Jeff

JeffB

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2023, 07:47:58 AM »
0
I find the Fast Tracks pc ties kind of annoying - they are too short to get more than one or two ties out each piece (and certainly not more than one when being used for the longer switch ties) and they generate a lot of waste. An alternate source of longer length pieces would be helpful. I’ve cut longer lengths out of sheet circuit board material, but it’s not one of my favorite modeling tasks.

Their original PC tie stock was sheared from PC board at one time...  They went to CNC routing it from PC board several years ago.  Less product, more waste and more expensive. 

I think the reasoning was that the CNC routed ties were a lot "cleaner" than the sheared ones, which required a lot of edge cleanup.  I think that I also read that the shearing force/action increased the likelihood of the copper delaminating from the substrate over time, but I'm not 100% on that.  I tend to believe that heat is more of a factor in that.

I have both types (HO narrow gauge tie stock), but tend to use the sheared tie stock.  I'm fortunate in that I purchased several bags of them when they were still available.

As a side topic...  Someone mentioned that they were looking for some Clover House PC tie strips.  I have several packages of the N scale PC tie strips and a few of the throwbar width strips.  I'd gladly part with them for a price (reasonable, no idiotic price gouging).  If anyone is interested, PM me about it and I can count how many packages I have and set a price.

Jeff




Jscottw

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2023, 09:40:06 AM »
0
I don't think I get as much tension on the pc throw tie with code 40.  Code 55 I can see needing a pin over time.

John

JeffB

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2023, 10:18:54 AM »
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I don't think I get as much tension on the pc throw tie with code 40.  Code 55 I can see needing a pin over time.

John

True...  I don't do a whole lot with Code 40, mostly Code 55 and now that I've moved up to Sn2 (HOn3 gauge track) Code 70, where it's definitely advisable to hinge the point rails at the throwbar.

Jeff

robert3985

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2023, 12:57:27 PM »
+3
Yup, the throwbar is the weak point in all N-scale turnouts, but it's not just figuring out how to increase the surface area of the solder joint that will solve the problem.

As some of you have noticed, there is less tension on the solder joint at the throwbar using Code40 rails than using Code55 rails, which are quite a bit stiffer than the smaller rail.  This is because Code40 rail is much more flexible than Code55 rail, and bends with much less effort when the switch is thrown.

When using the no-hinges one-piece-closure-rail protocol for your closure/point rails, the stiffer the rails, the more torque is applied to the throwbar.  This can be alleviated somewhat by leaving the combination closure/point rails unsoldered for a long distance on the throwbar side of the rail gaps at the frog, but then gauge and radius problems can occur.

Ideally, the point rails should be hinged at the point rail heels with a sliding hinge that allows lateral movement as well as radial movement...like using a shortened rail joiner like an ME #6 turnout.  This gets rid of the torque problem, but introduces a potential electrical problem because the sliding hinge isn't reliable all the time to carry electrical current because of oxidation, dirt, paint, ballast glue, cat hairs etc.  A fairly easy way to make sure of electrical continuity at the hinge is to solder a fine, flexible wire across the hinge from the toes of the closure rails to the heels of the point rails.  This should be done so that the wire isn't tight, but has slack in it so the point rails can slide back and forth in the hinge.

This will usually solve the torquing of the solder joints at the throwbar.

I prefer to use Proto87Stores' etched "heel block hinges" instead of shortened rail joiners because of their appearance and utility.

Photo (1) - Proto87Stores "Heel Block Hinges" on one of my turnouts...


From an appearance aspect, since if we are building our own turnouts we are building models of real turnouts, most prototype turnouts have point rails that are standard lengths, and are hinged.  This is pretty obvious when looking at real turnouts from a human eyeball height because of the foreshortening.  You can see the "kink" at the hinge which connects the closure rail and point rail very easily, but, if you build your turnouts with single-piece combination closure/point rails with no hinge, this "kink" is missing, and IMO it detracts from a realistic model turnout appearance.

Photo (2) - Prototype "kink" at the point rail heel hinge...


One way to get the benefits of a monolithic closure/point rail from an electrical/alignment aspect but still have a hinge, is to file a "V" on either side of the long closure/point rail where prototypically the hinge would be.  I file mine using a triangular jeweler's file, filing away the rail foot and rail head at the tips of the "V" on both sides of the rail, just kissing the rail web.  This makes an excellent, strong hinge which will always be aligned and always carry electrical current.

When using the "notch" hinges on my turnouts, I solder in one or two PCB ties at the closure rail toes, just before the notch hinges to keep the closure rail properly aligned with their respective stock rails.

Photo (3) - A photo of "Notch" hinges on one of my older turnouts...


It'd be great if all you had to do next was to solder a PCB throwbar to the point rail toes, BUT...the shortened point rails and the non-sliding hinges you've just created will drastically magnify the torque at the point rail toes' solder attachment joints at the throwbar and will chronically break, even using silver-bearing solder, which is 5 to 6 times stronger than plain ol' lead-tin solder....especially with Code55 rail.

The solution for Code55 point rails is to hinge them at the throwbar, which will get rid of that damn solder-joint-breaking-torque that non-sliding point rail heel hinges induce.

Here's how I do it...and get a somewhat prototypical look at the same time...

Photo (4) - Here's a drawing and instructions on how to fashion Code55 point rail toe hinges...


Photo (5) - Here's a photo of my point rail throwbar hinges in the flesh...


So, because of the thickness of the wire I use to attach point rail ties to the throwbar, this will make flange clearance tight for Code40 rails, so I use my point rail toe hinges at the throwbar only on my Code55 turnouts, and I use my "notch" hinges at the point rail heels instead of the Proto87Stores' heel block hinges (actually, I use them, but deactivate them by soldering one side of them to rail heels & toes which makes them take the place of a wire because I like their appearance, but a "notch" hinge will still work just fine).  The hinges at the point rail toes at the throwbar eliminate any torque problems.

I also use Proto87Stores' Tri-Planed Point Rails, which eliminate filing away the stock rail feet on either side of the point rails for a prototype appearance.  Unfortunately, this also eliminates having single closure/point rails in my turnouts but, making use of P87Stores' Heel Block Hinges is a good way to look good and retain electrical continuity at the same time if you "deactivate" them as I've described above.

For my Code40 turnouts, I use the Proto87Stores' heel block hinges, solder a fine wire between the rail heels & toes at the hinge, and reinforce the solder joints between the point rail toes and the throwbar with 0.003" brass shim stock plates bent to a very shallow "Z" shape.  The sliding/rotating P87Stores' heel block hinges eliminate any torque problems on the solid solder joints at the throwbar.

Photo (6) - Here's a good photo showing P87Stores' heel block hinges and their tri-planed point rails and my first iteration of my hinged point rails at the throwbar.  Notice the stock rails at the switch aren't filed away on the inside...


I always use PCB ties for both headblocks on either side of the throwbar, and on either side of any gaps because reinforcement at these positions is necessary IMO.  I probably use more than needed elsewhere, but I have a large stock of PCB tie material, so the cost is irrelevant for me, since I won't be running out.

Although this may seem complicated (and it is) and take more time than the Fast Tracks methods, my turnouts don't break any more, are smooth as silk, and look better IMO than my old, simpler ones.  Following my methodology will virtually eliminate throwbar problems from normal use.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Jscottw

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2023, 01:35:16 PM »
0
Robert,

Very nice work.  Does the Heel Block Hinge from the proto 87 site come in N scale sizes or does that not really matter? 

John

Simon D.

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2023, 02:56:51 PM »
0
Didn't @DKS have a solution where he filed a short section of the points down to just the base, bent it 90 degrees and soldered it through a hole in the throwbar?  Sorry, can't find the thread.


You can just about see it at about 1 min in this video: 

Simon D.

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Re: N scale code 40 vs code 55 any thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2023, 02:58:58 PM »
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Also closer up at about 10 secs.