James May Explores A Model Train Factory! | Big Trouble in Model Britain

[John]

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James May + Hornby Trains! Name a more iconic duo! James returns with 'Big Trouble in Model Britain' as he's invited behind the closed doors of Hornby to follow them throughout a year were they are on the brink of collapse. Join James as he explores the ups and downs during the revival of a company that formed his childhood!

In the first of this two part series, we join Hornby at the start of their revival. After a loss of £30m in the past five years, the new boss Lyndon Davies, and Hornby veteran Simon Kohler, are here to save the much beloved company. James May gets an insight into just how much the maker of his favourite childhood toy have declined in recent years. We also meet master modeller Jim who is given the biggest build of his modelling life!

[dem34]

Hornby and on the brink of collapse. Name a more iconic duo.

[ljudice]

Excellent!

[Point353]

No mention, thus far, of Arnold.

[John]

Part 2

[bigdawgks]

For reference this series originally aired in 2019. Since then Simon Kohler has retired from Hornby and they are still aggressively trying to push their competitors out of what they see as their market. Recently when other manufacturers announced their plans to debut an entirely new scale in UK modeling (TT 120), they quickly announced their own versions of practically all of the same rolling stock, causing one of the other manufacturers to back out. Overall they may have found financial stability but I believe they are becoming one of the most despicable model rail companies out there.

[robertjohndavis]

For reference this series originally aired in 2019. Since then Simon Kohler has retired from Hornby

Simon has clearly said he did not retire. There's more to the story, it seems.

[learmoia]

This part 2 gives good insight into the bad blood between the Mfgs and the shops, and the production of the show seems to frame it as a 'dick move' on Hornby's part.

Seems like a pretty ruthless move to try to return to profitability by rush producing and under cutting prices for duplicate products being produced by your 'competitors' when those same competitors are also the dealers you rely on to sell your product.

~Ian

[bigdawgks]

Simon has clearly said he did not retire. There's more to the story, it seems.

I haven't read the details so maybe there is indeed more to the story. Still, this series does seem to portray him as the primary architect of whole aggressive competition strategy. Maybe he's just been scapegoated but in either case I do know it was announced that he is leaving.

[dem34]

This part 2 gives good insight into the bad blood between the Mfgs and the shops, and the production of the show seems to frame it as a 'dick move' on Hornby's part.

Seems like a pretty ruthless move to try to return to profitability by rush producing and under cutting prices for duplicate products being produced by your 'competitors' when those same competitors are also the dealers you rely on to sell your product.

~Ian

Yeah that certainly jumped out at me. I understand the need to be competitive, but you don't really see that outright aggressiveness in the US market. Unless like somebody strikes a nerve, or somebody feels they definitely can do better by a wide margin. Only ever see that here when its Bachmann and Atlas guys talking about Rapido.

[learmoia]

Oddly enough, Sam's Trains just posted a scathing review of a new Hornby product.  Then he announced a better product made with a 3d printer..

[John]

I wonder how much of this cultural in the UK model train scene ..   a couple of the arguments seemed cordial - but with a "screw you" attitude

[wm3798]

Hmmm.  A few takeaways.

I recall there being rumbles when Horizon Hobbies bought Athearn, clearly a vertical consolidation, and the other elephant in the room, Walthers.

But what has come of it?  Walther's sold the N scale stuff it ignored back to the manufacturing sector (Atlas) and Athearn remains a reasonably innovative player as really a third stringer in N scale, but with a pretty strong distribution network, plus its expansive and expanding HO reach.

Neither of these really scratch the surface of the relationship that Hattons and Sheffield have/had with Hornby.  Horizon and Walther's are primarily distributors, not retailers (although you can buy direct from Walther's, not sure about Horizon) but not in the bricks and mortar sense that the UK seems to prefer.  A more direct comparison would be if MB Klein or Lombard Hobbies actually did a full on manufactured and proprietary product line.  (custom paint jobs on someone else's model are pretty common, but an actual product run is not.)

I think the key points are:
The prior management of Hornby failed the retailers by not providing the products that were needed in a timely manner, and Simon was working to correct that.  It's pretty remarkable that he got the two "competitive" models out in a year's time.
The retailers, on the other hand, were attempting to meet the product demands, but were clearly out of their league and had a steep learning curve with overseas manufacturing, product development, pricing, and marketing.  Simon wasn't wrong when he said that perhaps they were stepping into his arena as a manufacturer, rather than staying in their lane as retailers/distributors.
And, at the end of the day, business is business.  Hatton and Sheffield took a risk to try to meet a market demand, and someone with more resources was able to beat them to the market.  It is what it is. 

Clearly there was a market for an updated Terrier, just as there was a market for an updated Bachmann Consolidation.  Hornby wasn't wrong to make that staple of their product line a priority.  The unspoken comic opera in all of this is the whole Chinese manufacturing thing.  After the old MTH vs Lionel hubub of a few years ago, it would be hilarious to learn that both of the Terriers are being assembled in the same plant.

It was enjoyable to watch the process unfold, and it makes me wonder about the old "gentlemen's agreement" we used to talk about when manufacturers would steer clear of a particular model because another maker was producing, or had produced that same model previously.  (SD40-2 anyone?)  Suddenly we have three different Big Boys, several E units, and other such models, and they all seem to be be doing just fine in the sales charts.  There's likely room for more than one Terrier.

Now I have to get back to work.
Lee

[Point353]

I recall there being rumbles when Horizon Hobbies bought Athearn, clearly a vertical consolidation, and the other elephant in the room, Walthers.

But what has come of it?  Walther's sold the N scale stuff it ignored back to the manufacturing sector (Atlas) and Athearn remains a reasonably innovative player as really a third stringer in N scale, but with a pretty strong distribution network, plus its expansive and expanding HO reach.

Neither of these really scratch the surface of the relationship that Hattons and Sheffield have/had with Hornby.  Horizon and Walther's are primarily distributors, not retailers (although you can buy direct from Walther's, not sure about Horizon) but not in the bricks and mortar sense that the UK seems to prefer.  A more direct comparison would be if MB Klein or Lombard Hobbies actually did a full on manufactured and proprietary product line.  (custom paint jobs on someone else's model are pretty common, but an actual product run is not.)

While there may be others, the only occurrences of retailers going "vertical" that I can recall are Charles Ro with their 'USA Trains' G gauge line and, more recently, Menards with their O gauge 'Train Stuff from Menards' products.

[bigdawgks]

Hmmm.  A few takeaways.

I recall there being rumbles when Horizon Hobbies bought Athearn, clearly a vertical consolidation, and the other elephant in the room, Walthers.

But what has come of it?  Walther's sold the N scale stuff it ignored back to the manufacturing sector (Atlas) and Athearn remains a reasonably innovative player as really a third stringer in N scale, but with a pretty strong distribution network, plus its expansive and expanding HO reach.

Neither of these really scratch the surface of the relationship that Hattons and Sheffield have/had with Hornby.  Horizon and Walther's are primarily distributors, not retailers (although you can buy direct from Walther's, not sure about Horizon) but not in the bricks and mortar sense that the UK seems to prefer.  A more direct comparison would be if MB Klein or Lombard Hobbies actually did a full on manufactured and proprietary product line.  (custom paint jobs on someone else's model are pretty common, but an actual product run is not.)

I think the key points are:
The prior management of Hornby failed the retailers by not providing the products that were needed in a timely manner, and Simon was working to correct that.  It's pretty remarkable that he got the two "competitive" models out in a year's time.
The retailers, on the other hand, were attempting to meet the product demands, but were clearly out of their league and had a steep learning curve with overseas manufacturing, product development, pricing, and marketing.  Simon wasn't wrong when he said that perhaps they were stepping into his arena as a manufacturer, rather than staying in their lane as retailers/distributors.
And, at the end of the day, business is business.  Hatton and Sheffield took a risk to try to meet a market demand, and someone with more resources was able to beat them to the market.  It is what it is. 

Clearly there was a market for an updated Terrier, just as there was a market for an updated Bachmann Consolidation.  Hornby wasn't wrong to make that staple of their product line a priority.  The unspoken comic opera in all of this is the whole Chinese manufacturing thing.  After the old MTH vs Lionel hubub of a few years ago, it would be hilarious to learn that both of the Terriers are being assembled in the same plant.

It was enjoyable to watch the process unfold, and it makes me wonder about the old "gentlemen's agreement" we used to talk about when manufacturers would steer clear of a particular model because another maker was producing, or had produced that same model previously.  (SD40-2 anyone?)  Suddenly we have three different Big Boys, several E units, and other such models, and they all seem to be be doing just fine in the sales charts.  There's likely room for more than one Terrier.

Now I have to get back to work.
Lee

There's more to the situation however. In the UK you have at most 3 major manufacturers, one of which is not in the British N market at all (Hornby). There are a couple more small manufacturers, but they are merely able to pick up the scraps from Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol. New startup manufacturers have a hard time competing with those 3. Furthermore, Hornby and Bachmann have both started programs to encourage customers to buy from them directly, such as offering exclusive models only available from them. The major retailers have also begun offering exclusive products in cooperation with some of the manufacturers (including the smaller ones).

You will occasionally get some retailers in NA to commission some exclusive product but in the UK they are usually offered with every major product release.

I think all of this leads to a situation where a lot of modelers feel like they're being ripped off or short changed. It also tends to stifle innovation. The market is lagging behind North America and Europe in some regards. For some reason it seems there is always some drama going on over there. I don't think Hornby's business strategy is at all constructive for the growth of the hobby, only for their own growth.