Micro Trains 5 car Passenger sets and corresponding passenger power...

[thomasjmdavis]

@MTLJoe I have one request for a set,
The ATSF Valley Flyer.
I know its super unique, but a few of us happen to own ATSF 1369, a swell little Model Power Pacific in a gorgeous paint scheme, but no matching cars to go with it.
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/flyer39.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Flyer
just a thought!

Another reason we need a baggage-lounge combine.... AND an accurate Santa Fe heavyweight chair car.

Speaking of combine, I think we should only recommend 5 car sets that need a baggage coach (or baggage lounge) combine...

[k27463]

Frisco would be a bit interesting but definitely doable...

I'm picturing these cars:

70' baggage/RPO: https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p00851.jpg
70' baggage: https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p01665.jpg
Paired window coach (blue/white?): https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p00875.jpg OR single window coach https://www.hodrrm.org/body.cfm?id=110
Lounge/parlor: https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p01595.jpg
Pullman sleeper:  https://frisco.org/mainline/2018/03/07/pullman-sleeper-car-laidlaw/

I'm more than happy to dig up some paint codes for the blue/white if it'd help.  Round roof on the coach would be tremendous but not having it isn't a deal breaker.

Frisco had a significant amount of head end traffic and the lounge would have had a lunch counter -- definitely able to substitute for a full diner on an overnight St. Louis - Oklahoma City train.

For reference, a photo of SLSF 1044 (the number BLI is producing) on a roughly similar train in St. Louis: https://frisco.org/mainline/2016/06/01/4-6-2-1044/

[squirrelhunter]

If someone has a copy of Steve Goen's MKT book and lives near MTL and can loan it to them, it has some excellent color shots of MKT heavyweights that would help.

The MKT had 25 single window coaches that were built in 1938 that are very close/exact to the MTL ones.

MKT's 70' baggage RPO's are also very close to the MTL one.

If I recall the MKT diners are off from the MTL diner by a kitchen window, definitely close enough to the MTL model.

Some MKT baggage cars had the doors spaced far apart like the MTL model, but with one door bigger than the other like the WOT model. I think they had some odd 3 door baggage cars as well.

MKT had the last heavyweight lounges is the US built right before the war as well.

My suggestion would be to do either a 5 car set for one of the secondary MKT day trains with a baggage, baggage-RPO, a couple of coaches and a business car or do a bigger SLSF/MKT Texas Special set.

The pre-streamliner Texas Special had a baggage RPO or two, a couple of coaches, a diner, the full lounge, and 6 or so sleepers, heavy on 10-1-2's off B&O, PRR and NYC. And since it was a joint operation it would be a mix of MKT and SLSF cars for the coaches, head end cars and diners.

[learmoia]

I know this would require new/modifying tooling, but express reefers based on the troop sleepers (not my own photos):













There are plenty more too, with different paint schemes. If you offered these as runner packs, frankly anyone modeling a mail or express train in the 50s and 60s could use the entire set. Additionally, the trucks were often changed from the full cushion, and MTL's Commonwealth express trucks would fit the bill. RPC #5 has a great article on Troop Sleepers and their conversions.

For the Express Troop Boxcars go...
Micro Trains already has:
All of the Cad/3d Designs
Trucks, Underframe, Body Core, Roof, Ends, and Steps/Parts

But to properly model the body modifications I think you would need to tool new sides, and do it in a way that you have 3+ door configurations.

If your satisfied with the 'paint over the windows' option then you can easily do an NYC or EL yourself with an MTL door and some bits of plastic for the door tracks.

Don't forget Skytop Models already offers these castings.  Edit.. the website doesn't load?

[Sokramiketes]

I'd just be happy if they stopped putting the ancient six-window RPO into every set that is in 1950's-60's era paint.  It's always the car I don't need and the furthest from prototype!  IC... GM&O... Wabash set coming...

Like with the Wabash, we need two coaches, and have no need for the six-window RPO.  Swap in an extra coach in it's place. 

Or, tool up the more common window arrangements as initially discussed when the RPO was released! 

/rant

[thomasjmdavis]

I'd just be happy if they stopped putting the ancient six-window RPO into every set that is in 1950's-60's era paint.  It's always the car I don't need and the furthest from prototype!  IC... GM&O... Wabash set coming...

Like with the Wabash, we need two coaches, and have no need for the six-window RPO.  Swap in an extra coach in it's place. 

Or, tool up the more common window arrangements as initially discussed when the RPO was released! 

/rant

My turn...{rant}
MTL heavyweights are so very good for what they are good for, but as with MTL generally, so much of their production is targeted to collectors, that it can be frustrating for those trying to model prototypically. An RPO built in 1918 appearing in a set painted for 1960 or later is the passenger equivalent of a USRA single sheathed car painted as a WWII war emergency car, or my own small fleet of PS1s that are lettered as pre-war Bx-37s with ATSF maps (ie- AAR 1937 boxcars). It is their business plan, it does seem to keep them in business, and they periodically do produce prototypically correct cars, and undecs, for those of us who actually want to match prototypical lettering to prototypical cars.

To date, I have purchased zero sets, other than a 3-pak of 12-1s to use as cores.  I don't have any need for 12-1s, given that none of the 2 dozen passenger trains I'm trying to model carried one in 1956.  I'm doing what Pullman actually did, and rebuilding them into something with bedrooms.  I wish we had the sleeper selection that they have in Z scale (yes, Z scale has more heavyweight sleepers than N scale).

For the Wabash, it would depend on when you are modeling.  All of the Wabash RPOs looked like the MTL model as built.  But, of course, that would have been between 1917 and 1927 (or thereabouts), when most were rebuilt into mail-baggage configuration, and the others were given a 6-0 window arrangement. And in 1927, I think they were green, and of  course had the original lettering.  An option that might help with updating without a complete retool would be to make a 60' mail-baggage- which is what Wabash (and dozens of other roads) did with the majority of their 4-2/3-3 RPOs.  Our late friend Jerry Laboda had a webpage dedicated to kitbashes of the MTL RPO to produce accurate models for a half  dozen railroads. That would yield a car that was quite common from 1925 to 1967.

The amusing one for me was when MTL put those RPOs into the Santa Fe Fast Mail set- given that ATSF NEVER had an RPO with that window arrangement.

On the other hand, the MTL car made an excellent core for M&R sides in the days when you could still get M&R sides, and plugging one window on each side yields a GTW RPO (and I confess- I cheated and just painted one as it came from the factory).

All that said, the MTL current RPO does have a place in the history of N scale- the first of a series of prototypical heavyweight passenger cars produced by the company.  Whatever their flaws (rarely being 100% correct for any given road or paint scheme- but heavyweights were often road specific, so that will be true of most mass produced heavyweight models), they are better than any of the other options, and usually "generic enough" that they make pretty good stand ins.
Personally, I think it is time they produced some new body styles- or modified the current ones- to produce new prototypes- as they've done with the observation/business car.

And, if they ever do a variation of baggage or mail baggage, someone PLEASE tell them to make the cars with interchangeable doors.  The single most identifiable feature of a baggage car is the window arrangement in the doors- you could have a whole secondary market devoted to etched and 3D printed doors. A big upside to the Wheels of Time baggage is that you can drop in whatever door you want to fabricate, and the company itself produces several variations.
{/rant}

[squirrelhunter]

Different spin on the rant above- lots of roads had baggage RPO's that look similar to the MTL model, and even ran them where the 30' mail apartments were next to each other so they were the equal of a 60' RPO.

So my suggestion wpuld be just to use their existing Baggage RPO instead of the full 60' RPO in sets. My understanding is most RPO routes lacked the amount of mail to merit a full 60' RPO but many could support a 30' RPO.

[skytop35]

Don't forget Skytop Models already offers these castings.  Edit.. the website doesn't load?

Skytop Models is no more! Sorry

[thomasjmdavis]

Different spin on the rant above- lots of roads had baggage RPO's that look similar to the MTL model, and even ran them where the 30' mail apartments were next to each other so they were the equal of a 60' RPO.

So my suggestion wpuld be just to use their existing Baggage RPO instead of the full 60' RPO in sets. My understanding is most RPO routes lacked the amount of mail to merit a full 60' RPO but many could support a 30' RPO.

Absolutely. In terms of MTL cars currently in production, for most roads, in a 5 car train, a baggage-mail would be more common. And just generally speaking, mail-baggage cars of that configuration remained in service right up to the end of (most) railroad mail service in the late 60s- so with few exceptions, much more accurate for any paint scheme when running with air conditioned cars (the presence of AC makes the car late 30s at the earliest), and certainly running with cars in post war paint schemes.

The 70' mail-baggage may be my favorite MTL car. Accurate for several roads, very close for many, many others, and many kitbash possibilities.

 My discussion (rant) about the 60' RPO was more intended to point out some ways the current RPO tooling could be adapted to provide cars that would be more useful (and actually accurate for Wabash and many other roads).  Although I suspect that the folks who buy most of the sets don't care one way or the other. 

I've been hoping to see some intrepid manufacturers offering either replacement bodies or sides to fit MTL head end frames and roofs. But other than the M&R sides for ATSF cars (that AFAIK haven't been produced for several years,  although Roberto has hopes of finding a new etching company), I am not aware of any.

[Sokramiketes]

You're on the right track.  Early Wabash RPO would be fine.  Milwaukee Road had some similar, blank a window or two but still a split 3-2 situation.  MTL did a strange paint scheme on the orange maroon car, it was lettered for a conversion with an express door rather than the full RPO.  But, three (IIRC) made it to yellow and gray as full RPO's with split windows.  I painted one up that way.    You mentioned GTW, and I think early CB&Q/GN maybe had some as well? 

Atlas has the RPO that is more typical.  Lots more schemes they can do too.  But I wouldn't let that stop MTL from tooling a version themselves. 

[MRLX1020]

Frisco would be a bit interesting but definitely doable...

I'm picturing these cars:

70' baggage/RPO: https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p00851.jpg
70' baggage: https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p01665.jpg
Paired window coach (blue/white?): https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p00875.jpg OR single window coach https://www.hodrrm.org/body.cfm?id=110
Lounge/parlor: https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p01595.jpg
Pullman sleeper:  https://frisco.org/mainline/2018/03/07/pullman-sleeper-car-laidlaw/

I'm more than happy to dig up some paint codes for the blue/white if it'd help.  Round roof on the coach would be tremendous but not having it isn't a deal breaker.

Frisco had a significant amount of head end traffic and the lounge would have had a lunch counter -- definitely able to substitute for a full diner on an overnight St. Louis - Oklahoma City train.

For reference, a photo of SLSF 1044 (the number BLI is producing) on a roughly similar train in St. Louis: https://frisco.org/mainline/2016/06/01/4-6-2-1044/

I'll just leave this here...

[Cajonpassfan]

Lots of possibilities. C&EI even turned a couple troop kitchens into milk cars. (I don't think they lasted in that service very long- becoming regular box express). And don't forget the REA express refrigerators.
Maybe even a multi-road runner pack- I could use NYC, NH, B&O for mail trains headed west....just not 4 of each. Of a "Dearborn station" runner pack with C&EI, Monon,  and NYC (the latter would be headed west). (I'm working on some of my own). And does anyone know....were the EL express cars originally Erie or Lackawanna?

And a thought- I don't know if this becomes a tooling nightmare, but it strikes me that if the model could have interchangeable doors, it would make it easier both for production and for modelers. 1 body with windows blanked, with an inset door cut out, and then separate inset and exterior doors that could mount inside or outside as appropriate. Granted, probably only makes a "perfect" model for NYC inside and outside door versions, but with door variations, you could get very close to many others.

I

And might also provide some use for various high speed freight trucks- ASF A-3's with friction bearings for certain and I would bet Barber S-2s and various roller bearing options as well.

Yes, some head end car variations on the Troop sleeper and kitchen bodies seems like a no brainer. Lots of roads owned these. But then again, lots of things seem like a no brainer until one attempts to do them
Otto

[thomasjmdavis]

Yes, some head end car variations on the Troop sleeper and kitchen bodies seems like a no brainer. Lots of roads owned these. But then again, lots of things seem like a no brainer until one attempt to do them
Otto

Yeah, but here I am. prepared to guarantee that I will buy three.

Which, of course, is the problem.  I don't know how many units MTL figures they need to sell to justify a new body style (or an adapted body style), but I do know it's more than 3. If they did an AT&SF baggage car, I might buy as many as 5. Given that the "no brainer" combine has been an 8 year wait (and counting), and it took about 7 years to get the single window coach, I have the impression that PS-2s and even mill gondolas are seen as more productive uses of capital.

And don't anybody say "3D printing"...I'm working on installing a 3D roof on a baggage car.  It is going on the baggage car because it is now about 1/8" shorter than it was when it arrived and I put it aside to use on a diner project.  Just sayin'.

[greenwizard88]

@MTLJoe I have one request for a set,
The ATSF Valley Flyer.
I know its super unique, but a few of us happen to own ATSF 1369, a swell little Model Power Pacific in a gorgeous paint scheme, but no matching cars to go with it.
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/flyer39.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Flyer
just a thought!

That's the type of thing I have no interest in, but if BLI would release a 1369 pacific, I would absolutely buy the engine and cars. I guess, what I'm saying, is that I wish there was more cooperation in the industry too.

I cancelled my order for the Chessie T-1, and one of the main reasons was  because there's no gurantee I'll be able to get passenger cars for it (among other reasons).

[JoeD]

AWSOME!  I dropped these and will get them in for consideration.  thanks very much

Joe

@MTLJoe

Here's some info on the MKT cars that are close to what MTL offers:

Head end -
https://digitalcollections.smu.edu/digital/collection/rwy/id/1500
https://rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/mkt-br232asw.jpg

Coaches -
https://digitalcollections.smu.edu/digital/collection/rwy/id/1507

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67471

Katy had a handful of cars with cast pedestal trucks that were "rebuilt" in 1949!
http://www.rgusrail.com/album/kykrm/atsf_2546_02.jpg

Dining Car -
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=406086

Observation/Business car # 403 -
https://rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt-bc403aca.jpg
https://rr-fallenflags.org/steamtown/mkt-bc403gga.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/vegster149/5999874919


There seems to be no rule to the gold sill stripe - like the recent Virginian set release, I think the sill stripe makes these cars stand out (especialy with other Pullman pool equipment) and the KATY herald on the head end cars is a nice touch as well.

I think these would make a dandy 5 pack with room for expansion (baggage, more coaches or some assigned sleepers, MKT and SLSF also had solarium lounge cars...)

Again, happy to assist in the research process if it helps bring something to production.

Thanks for humoring me!

Justin
MRLX1020