BLI Decides to go “Stealth”

[MetroRedLine]

Suppose you didn’t finish reading the response to a query…

“ N scale comes with a 6 pin socket.  Same details.  Same motor.  Same paint.  No smoke.  Lights are constant on.  Front and rear lights are directional.”

But all the cool kids are using 18-pin sockets!

[wmcbride]

Using a 6-pin socket vs the Next18 kind seems like going with Monkey Ward vs what, Macy's or even JC Penneys ... It's like, yeah, it will work and we don't want to make our new, possibly, higher-selling stealth engines compatible with the latest decoders.

[nickelplate759]

Using a 6-pin socket vs the Next18 kind seems like going with Monkey Ward vs what, Macy's or even JC Penneys ... It's like, yeah, it will work and we don't want to make our new, possibly, higher-selling stealth engines compatible with the latest decoders.

I had a similar thought.  This is intended for people who don't want sound in their engines, but might or might not want DCC.   Me, for example.  It's not so much for people who want a different sound solution.

[kscessandriver]

I had a similar thought.  This is intended for people who don't want sound in their engines, but might or might not want DCC.   Me, for example.  It's not so much for people who want a different sound solution.

Exactly, plugging in a NEM651 non-sound decoder is probably the easiest possible path to a DCC install there is.

[peteski]

The 6-pin decoder connector is the most basic connector available.  Track power, motor output and front/rear headlight.  It doesn't even have the common positive pin for the headlights on it! Some manufacturers who equipped their DC locos with a 6-pin connector install a dual diode circuit on their interface board to supply the common positive output. Maybe BLI will also do that?

What sound decoder options are available?  Well, any sound decoder which is available with a 6-pin connector (most are available in that configuration).  But this also means that you have to hardwire the speaker, and any additional functions.  I'm really surprised that any manufacturer making DCC ready locos (especially one known for sound-equipped locos) did not use Next 18 connector on a new design board.  It boggles my mind.

[bigdawgks]

I too find it bizarre that they haven't gone with a Next18 interface. This indicates to me that they have little to no interest in transitioning away from their Paragon decoders. I don't agree that this is in the interest of those who want a DC locomotive. They could easily sell a non-sound factory fitted dual mode decoder for the same price, and DC users would be getting a better deal. A N18 interface would not only be more desirable to buyers who want to fit their own decoders, but would allow them to also fit any number of 3rd party decoders for sound equipped models with minimal differences in parts between both versions (just a blanking plug in place of the decoder). That's precisely what all European manufacturers are starting to do now and it seems to be working well in those markets.

[C855B]

...sigh...

It's because most of their profit is in their [inferior] sound decoder. They have every disincentive to make it easy to drop in somebody else's. I think they're finally coming around to realize they were being written-off by modelers not interested in sound nor the premium attached.

[peteski]

A N18 interface would not only be more desirable to buyers who want to fit their own decoders, but would allow them to also fit any number of 3rd party decoders for sound equipped models with minimal differences in parts between both versions (just a blanking plug in place of the decoder). That's precisely what all European manufacturers are starting to do now and it seems to be working well in those markets.

They have been doing this for quite a while, and nowadays Next18 connector is pretty much the accepted "standard" in most recently manufactured European prototype models which do not have a factory installed decoder (at least in the models I have been purchasing).  And even some factory installed decoders are connected to the loco's "motherboard" using Next18 connector.  And of course the DC versions of the model have a Next18 bypass plug installed in the "motherboard"

[Jbub]

...sigh...

It's because most of their profit is in their [inferior] sound decoder. They have every disincentive to make it easy to drop in somebody else's. I think they're finally coming around to realize they were being written-off by modelers not interested in sound nor the premium attached.

I get that, but then why put a 21 pin in the HO models vs. just a 6 pin in N models? Plus the price difference between the "stealth" and paragon models seems to be keeping a good chunk of the extra profit they were receiving with their decoder installed.

[Point353]

It's almost as though BLI wants the DC/DCC-ready product option to fail by including only a primitive DCC connector coupled with a relatively small price differential compared to the fully-featured locos. 

[Jbub]

It's almost as though BLI wants the DC/DCC-ready product option to fail by including only a primitive DCC connector coupled with a relatively small price differential compared to the fully-featured locos.

BLI needs to re-evaluate what they want to do as a model railroad company. They want have highly detailed models with sound, but they design subpar electronics that can't go 5 inches without resetting. They sometimes have a high level of detail on their loco's with separately applied grab irons but then have some models with molded on details at the same price as the higher level detail models. They introduce gimmicky, toylike features like smoke in N, mooing box cars, and the bass speaker to make you feel your model, but want to be considered as a premier model railroad manufacturer. They make some incredibly unique models but then make a model that is already oversaturated in the market.
I just don't get it.
They now want to appease modelers who won't buy their product because of the decoder by now selling them as dc/dcc ready but put an inferior connector in the n scale models.

[signalmaintainer]

BLI needs to re-evaluate what they want to do as a model railroad company. They want have highly detailed models with sound, but they design subpar electronics that can't go 5 inches without resetting. They sometimes have a high level of detail on their loco's with separately applied grab irons but then have some models with molded on details at the same price as the higher level detail models. They introduce gimmicky, toylike features like smoke in N, mooing box cars, and the bass speaker to make you feel your model, but want to be considered as a premier model railroad manufacturer. They make some incredibly unique models but then make a model that is already oversaturated in the market.
I just don't get it.
They now want to appease modelers who won't buy their product because of the decoder by now selling them as dc/dcc ready but put an inferior connector in the n scale models.

I agree. All good points. And all reasons I've never even considered buying any BLI product.

[peteski]

I don't buy lots of BLI items, but to be honest if one which I desire comes along, I'm be very happy if I can buy it without the BLI sound decoder if the model's price is about $100 lower than what it would costs with their decoder, regardless of what DCC connector is installed in it.  Yes, 6-pin it is sub-par, but better than discarding a crappy $100 decoder.

I also don't  understand why someone is going and down-voting my recent and other's posts.  Really?!  Show me what exactly causes you to down-vote the following post?  If anything, it should have been up-voted, as it was informational and educational    SOme people . . .  I don't get it.

The 6-pin decoder connector is the most basic connector available.  Track power, motor output and front/rear headlight.  It doesn't even have the common positive pin for the headlights on it! Some manufacturers who equipped their DC locos with a 6-pin connector install a dual diode circuit on their interface board to supply the common positive output. Maybe BLI will also do that?

What sound decoder options are available?  Well, any sound decoder which is available with a 6-pin connector (most are available in that configuration).  But this also means that you have to hardwire the speaker, and any additional functions.  I'm really surprised that any manufacturer making DCC ready locos (especially one known for sound-equipped locos) did not use Next 18 connector on a new design board.  It boggles my mind.

[Lemosteam]

Geez.  I posted this after hearing here, ad-nauseum, how everyone wished manufacturers would sell their locos sans decoder (BLI especially, rightfully so).  Now we have to criticize HOW they decide to do it?

If you don't like the 6 pin, cut it out and hardwire for gosh sake.  Anyone willing to rip out the original decoder in the past is surely capable of doing this, @jdcolombo is the example, (and likely the reason why I have only converted a couple locos to date  ).

Personally I think ALL of the pin options are a waste of space and that a hardwire would be cleaner in the end, and allow more room for a larger speaker, weight, and wires, etc.

I looked at this news as good news regardless, hence the post.  One manufacturer actually LISTENED, or at minimum surmised this was better for business- on win at a time, no?

I respect the opinions of course, but it sounds more like whining, IMHO.

[reinhardtjh]

I don't buy lots of BLI items, but to be honest if one which I desire comes along, I'm be very happy if I can buy it without the BLI sound decoder if the model's price is about $100 lower than what it would costs with their decoder, regardless of what DCC connector is installed in it.  Yes, 6-pin it is sub-par, but better than discarding a crappy $100 decoder.

I agree.  I buy a number of BLI models because they're the only one doing PRR (and C&O) steam.  Until this announcement I've had to look at each one and assume that it's going to cost me another $90 (discounted ESU price) over whatever the street price is to upgrade the decoder in each one.  Saving $100 each is preferred even if I have to rip out the stupid 6-pin board rather than a decoder and board.

I also don't  understand why someone is going and down-voting my recent and other's posts.  Really?!  Show me what exactly causes you to down-vote the following post?  If anything, it should have been up-voted, as it was informational and educational    SOme people . . .  I don't get it.

Fixed that for you (and for Signalmaintainer and MetroRedLine).  Wonder if that will earn me a down vote as well.   

What sound decoder options are available?  Well, any sound decoder which is available with a 6-pin connector (most are available in that configuration).  But this also means that you have to hardwire the speaker, and any additional functions.  I'm really surprised that any manufacturer making DCC ready locos (especially one known for sound-equipped locos) did not use Next 18 connector on a new design board.  It boggles my mind.[/i][/b]

My first thought was like C855B's and that it's BLI's penalty for choosing to NOT use their decoder.  But in all likelihood it's just BLI thinking that N-Scalers don't need anything more than a 6-pin.  Who knows.