Pico Whitcomb N scale w & wo sound pre-order

[brokemoto]

I would've absolutely been in for a MMID one,

There was one in HO.  Did Maryland Midland actually have one?  As MMID came into existence sometime around the 1980s (I forget exactly when), that would be late for one of these in revenue service.

[learmoia]

[Point353]

There was one in HO.  Did Maryland Midland actually have one?  As MMID came into existence sometime around the 1980s (I forget exactly when), that would be late for one of these in revenue service.

[Cajonpassfan]

It's been crickets on this thread. Did any of you guys actually acquire the DCC sound version, and if so what do you think of it? There was a note earlier to the effect that the PIKO decoder (in another loco?) may not play well with NCE. That would kill it for this NCE user.
Any more information out there?
Comments appreciated,
Otto K.

[Jim Starbuck]

I’m still eagerly awaiting a call from Lombard that my preorder has arrived.

[peteski]

It's been crickets on this thread. Did any of you guys actually acquire the DCC sound version, and if so what do you think of it? There was a note earlier to the effect that the PIKO decoder (in another loco?) may not play well with NCE. That would kill it for this NCE user.
Any more information out there?
Comments appreciated,
Otto K.

A new discussion about this has just been started. See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=56800.0
It was me who has a problem with recent PIKO sound decoder (in a German diesel loco and NCE Power Cab). I don't know if the Whitcomb uses the same type of decoder, but I suspect yes.

[spookshow]

I have the sound version. It's not horrible, but it's definitely giving me some problems. When it goes it goes (and keeps going), but stopping and starting frequently results in a stall. And even when it's not out-and-out stalling, the diesel sound will often cut in and out. Design-wise, I really hate the wired wheel-back wipers. That's going to be a nightmare to maintain. Also, I think traction tires are generally a bad idea when it comes to 4-axle diesel switchers. I mean, it's not like you need to pull 100 cars.

At this point I'm thinking that the Atlas Alco S-2 with sound is a much better model.

-Mark

[peteski]

I have the sound version. It's not horrible, but it's definitely giving me some problems. When it goes it goes (and keeps going), but stopping and starting frequently results in a stall. And even when it's not out-and-out stalling, the diesel sound will often cut in and out. Design-wise, I really hate the wired wheel-back wipers. That's going to be a nightmare to maintain. Also, I think traction tires are generally a bad idea when it comes to 4-axle diesel switchers. I mean, it's not like you need to pull 100 cars.

At this point I'm thinking that the Atlas Alco S-2 with sound is a much better model.

-Mark

Unfortunately that old style of electric pickup is still most commonly used in European models (along with rapido couples). They havent' yet entered the low-fricton (Kato style) truck design that many (but ont all) manufacturers of US prototype models utilize.

It is actually not all that difficult to maintain (or you would have heard a lot of grumbling about it from the modeler community over the last 50 years). Yes oily fuzz can accumulate around the wipers, but it does not have to be cleaned out often.  American models such as the Bachmann 44-tonner use that style of pickup, and you still gave it an "A" rating.    To me the worst part of that design is the high friction.  I also agree about noneed for  traction tires, but again, it is an "European thing".

I also agree that Atlas S-2 with the ESU sound decoder is my favorite sound loco.  That put-put-put-snort-chugga-chugga-put-put-snort  engine sound (which sounds like there are lots of loose parts in the engine), and the horn that sounds like foghorn are an awesome example of diesel sound in a tiny N scale model.  That think sounds a bit like those hit-and-miss engines I see displayed at the local agricultural fairs.  Fun stuff~

[spookshow]

It is actually not all that difficult to maintain (or you would have heard a lot of grumbling about it from the modeler community over the last 50 years). Yes oily fuzz can accumulate around the wipers, but it does not have to be cleaned out often.  American models such as the Bachmann 44-tonner use that style of pickup, and you still gave it an "A" rating.   

There's a big difference between trucks that can easily be pulled out of the chassis (like the 44-tonner's) and trucks that are hard-wired in place.

-Mark

[Altoona]

 Have a Piko Whitcomb 65 tonner with a Piko SmartDecoder XP 5.1 Sound no problems programing it. The problems are try to run it. Using Digitrax DSC 50 or 51 no problems. Trying to use Digitrax DSC100 or 240 it just sits on the track with the motor sound on, no movement no others sounds and not lights. The hand held throttle is a DT402r, no problems with it connect to a DSC 51.

Judd Barton

[peteski]

There's a big difference between trucks that can easily be pulled out of the chassis (like the 44-tonner's) and trucks that are hard-wired in place.

-Mark

True, but the recent IM F7s have hardwired trucks too (although, at least they use the low-friction Kato-like design).  The Scale Trains models I own also have hardwired trucks.  Yes, it sucks, but they do it.  Even Atlas started using wired tucks - at least they use connectors which can be disconnected from the chassis.

[spookshow]

It's the combination of the two features (hardwired trucks and wheelback wipers) that I think will lead to maintenance headaches. I don't see how it couldn't. I've never had wheelback wipers that didn't eventually need cleaning, and now they've made it a lot harder to get at them.

In any case, I'm grading it on its performance (which hasn't been particularly impressive), as opposed to any potential maintenance problems.

-Mark

[ek2000]

It's been crickets on this thread. Did any of you guys actually acquire the DCC sound version, and if so what do you think of it? There was a note earlier to the effect that the PIKO decoder (in another loco?) may not play well with NCE. That would kill it for this NCE user.
Any more information out there?
Comments appreciated,
Otto K.

Just got mine. Works with my NCE powercab but somewhat oddly and without the predictability of an ESU decoder. Sometimes I have to press 8 multiple times for the motor sounds to come on. Directional headlights work only when pressing 0 and not L. Have not changed any CV settings except CV 2 to make it creep slower (was set to 96 out the box). The locomotive can creep very slowly but will lose power frequently. The electrical pickup reliability is lower compared to my Atlas S2. The model has not been broken in yet.

The model is nicely weighted and feels substantial. Great sounds overall - diesel motors, horn, bell and other random sounds. Pressing 8 multiple times initiates both motor sounds, one at a time.

The Red class lights work on both ends and light up on the opposite side of travel. Number boards work with F9 and F10 as well. Cab lightsl comes on with F13. The HO model seemed to have some additional sound features including a failed start up sound sequence which the N scale model seems to lack. Nice detailing with several separately applied details.

Overall, a good model considering the niche prototype. The decoder peculiarities are tolerable considering that it is not likely to be paired with other locomotives.

EDIT:

I was able to reprogram the locomotive to use cab address and had no issues. Works fine.

Here are some stats on its weight compared with other switchers. All locomotives have sound so any weight loss associated with that applies to all.

Bachmann GE 44 tonner. 1.13 oz or 32 grams
Bachmann GE 70 tonner. 1.15 oz or 32.7 grams
Piko GE Whitcomb.  2.13 oz or 60.5 grams
Atlas S2. 2.19 oz or 62 grams

In terms of pulling ability, the locomotive seemed comfortable pulling 7 MT log cars with loads on flat track and 15 inch curves. The total load weight was 159.4 grams or 5.62 oz. This seemed to be about the upper limit before it strained/struggled. Did not want to push it more for the fear of loosening the traction tire. To be fair, an Atlas H16-44 also could pull only a similar weight and it was geared on both axles with no traction tires

[Jim Starbuck]

I received mine. It’s the USATC with sound.
I’m impressed with the detail, finish and overall weight.
We tend to look at sound decoders through ESU glasses which can make other manufacturers’s operation seem quirky when it’s simply how the decoder was designed and mapped. I was impressed with the number of functions that were pre mapped. Many of these I set up when doing my own installs anyway.
There’s pushbutton volume, pushbutton headlight dimming, switching speed, flange squeal, brake squeal, manual notching up and down, pushbutton cab interior light and I’m sure I’ve missed some. The independent number boards are very cool as well.
My home layout consists of a double loop of Unitrack with a dozen switches and various sidings powered by a Digitrax DCS 50 Zephyr. I have a UR93 to use a UT6R Duplex radio throttle. The utility throttle was necessary to access the higher functions but the engine performed just fine with just the controls on the Zepher.

Running the engine:
It took a bit to sort out the functions as they are spread out as high as F28 but the common ones are mapped to lower buttons.
It takes pressing F8 twice to start the first prime mover. A short pause then pressing F8 twice again starts the second prime mover. F9 lights the number boards while F0 lights the headlight with the opposite red marker lights. I usually detest directional lighting but I can live with this as the red marker lights change along with the headlight when the opposite direction is selected. F1 is a nice clear bell sound while F2 is a short horn and F3 a long.. There are a couple of radio chatter sounds that are a bit gimmicky but hey, just don’t play them. I know it’s highly subjective but I think the sound on this is excellent.
The sound also coasts and picks up under load without changing the throttle setting.

The first thing I did was clean the wheels (which were a bit grimy) to hopefully give an honest evaluation of track pickup which admittedly was a concern. While I wouldn’t call performance poor, pickup was a bit touchy. I wasn’t getting the stall at direction changes that Mark @sppokshow had reported. The engine ran nicely and settled in making laps at about 15 smph with no sound drop outs. I did accidentally run it up to a switch thrown against it and the sound dropped out. What I found when this happens is a matter of going to F16 and turning the volume back up. It seems a derailed car or other short will set the volume to 0 as opposed to turning the prime movers off.
After a couple of hours run time switching cars it seemed to just keep improving so a bit longer break in may be required.
Using a DT400 wired throttle to read and write new values to CVs to lower the minimum and maximum speeds as well as assign a new address worked perfectly with no issues whatsoever.

I did remove the shell and painted the white motor cover flat black so it wasn’t distracting showing through the windows.
I do like Piko’s version of knuckle couplers. They work very smoothly and are equivalent in size to Micro Trains N scale couplers. I had planned to convert them to Z scale but I don’t think I’ll bother at this point.

I highly respect Spookshow’s outstanding efforts and use his beyond valuable N Scale Encyclopedia quite often, my experience with this locomotive is quite opposite his unfavorable results.
To declare this engine to be non viable as an operational switcher is, I believe slighting much creativity and ingenuity on Piko’s part to bring this unique locomotive to market.
I realize Mark’s study sample was a sum total of one as was mine but my example is absolutely a viable switcher. The mechanism runs whisper quiet, pulls great and will creep through Unitrack turnouts at less than 5 smph.
I do feel that Piko is on the bleeding edge of balance between pulling capacity and reliable track pickup though. There is a Tantalum capacitor on the circuit board which helps but I think it could use just a bit more (as could most every other sound equipped locomotive).
As more or these engines come on board it will be interesting to see how the collective efforts of the creative folks here and elsewhere capitalize on the potential of in my opinion a very fine locomotive.
I’m delighted enough with it to have a second one on order.

Jim

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks for the writeup, Jim, that's reassuring...
Hope others will chime in also.
Otto