Atlas/ Kato vs Atlas/ China running quality

[Mark5]

N Scale of Nevada frames are still out there.  The frames were limited hand crafted items. Even with the frame adjusted truck spacing it still didn't look right.

Yeah, the body (hood) was "stretched" out to cover the chassis - one of the worst N scale models ever!

The Atlas/Kato GP7/9 almost made me quit N scale back in "the day". 

[brokemoto]

the body (hood) was "stretched" out to cover the chassis -

Ya' know, I was looking at mine last night  as it sat on the track.  It did seem a bit long.  I took out an Atlas China Torpedo Boar GP-9 and yup, yup, yup, the Atlas/Kato is too long.  The hood is too wide, as well.  Conversely, that Atlas/RoCo GP-7, -9 or whatever it was, seemed too small.  It did not run as well as the A/K, anyhow. I only ever had one Atlas/RoCo that I got in a trade lot.  I was more interested in some of the other items in the lot, so I kept those but sold what I did not want.  That A/R was one of the things that I sold.  I was surprised at what I got for it on FeePay.

We do get a number of out of scale items in N.  I have a station that I am convinced is more suited to Z than N.  The hood on the B-mann 44 tonner is reputed to be too wide.  The MDT that many manufacturers have sold is far out of scale.  It seem to be better suited to HO than N.  In fact, I put it up against an HO covered hopper and compared it to a service photograph of an MDT that was pushing  covered hopper and it looked about right.  I do use one of these as an industrial switcher on my pike.  I simply run it as a fictitious larger version of Fate-Root-Heath's MDT.  The B-mann versions of those in the plastic box are actually pretty good.  The very last versions of them in the cardboard box will run well until the axle gears crack.  I did manage to solve that problem.  There was a guy at Timonium who sells many B-mann items in HO and N.  He had a bunch of the plastic box things with bad motors for five dollars.  I bought two with the idea of coupling them to cheater box cars..  When I got one of the very last cardboard box versions in a trade lot, I noticed that it had cracked gears.  I simply swapped the wheelsets with one of those things, as a dummy would not need good gears.  The trade lot locomotive now runs well.  I did couple and hardwire it to the other dummy to improve electrical contact.  one of the improvements that B-mann made to the plastic box version was to add a third pair of contact wipers.  In previous versions, even the very last cardboard box versions, there were contact wipers only on two wheel sets.

[peteski]

There are a number of Kato USA generated products (including some of their contract work for Atlas and ConCor) that are sold in Japan as Kato products, and you can find them in old Kato catalogs sporting green labels instead of the Kato USA blue.
George

Yes Gerorge, I'm aware of the fact that Kato offered American prototype models for sale in Japan using different packaging and  labeling from what was available in USA.  I also realize that not all the stock numbers were printed as part of the inserts (as you said, some were stamped).  I suspect that brokenmoto's model was likely something that was offered for sale outside of the USA.

I'm also not disputing authenticity of brokenmoto's model.  I'm just surprised that it was found for sale in American hobby shop. Why would Kato distribute those models under their own brand name in USA while still making them for Atlas?  To me that would be bad business practice.  I believe that production of these models predates Kato USA entry into the American hobby market.  Yes I know that even before the Kaot/Atlas venture (which started with RS-3 and RS-11) , Kato supplied models to Con-Cor, but IIRC those were sold under Con-Cor labeling.  GP38-2 was the first model marketed as Kato in the USA.

Well, this thread is about the Atlas/Kato models, so we (I) have gone a bit off-topic.

Brokenmoto, I I don't know how many years ago that Kato GP9 model was purchased, but there is a model train hobby shop in Salem, right on Main street. It is actually rather close to George Sellios' famous F&SM layout.  I visited both several years ago.  The hobby shop mainly handles larger scale models (like Lionel).  http://netrains.com/

[randgust]

I had one of those old GP's,and immediately got the conversion frame from N scale of Nevada; still looked a bit odd, so junked the shell and discovered it would fit under a Rapido GP30 body that I had heavily modified and reworked.  That thing ran forever and pulled like a mule.  But those frames were soft enough lead that they had to be 'adjusted' every once in a while as the truck contact area would actually deflect and sag slightly.

That RS/GP9 design predated the pickup wipers on the trucks, and pickup was still kind of sketchy.  That wasn't solved until the GP30/35.

I had that morphed unit paired with a Kato GP38 and those two were the ultimate stump pullers.   Sold the 30 with the Rapido body and the N scale Nevada frame, one of the oddest combinations ever.

Years later I got to meet John Coots in person, that was a privilege.   He really shaped my approach to being a cottage supplier in N.

[peteski]

We do get a number of out of scale items in N. 

Yes, many N scale locos have incorrect dimensions.  If the narrow hood is a bit too wide, it can be overlooked. But this specific example (Atlas/Kato GP7 and 9) were off so much that they looked like caricatures.  The Model Railroader review of the model (I copied it from spookshow's website) sums things up quite well.

Kato-made version reviewed: 2/88 Model Railroader: ("N scalers have been watching for these new Geeps, made for Atlas by Kato of Japan, with great anticipation. Unfortunately, this GP7/GP9 project turned out to have a "good news/bad news" result. The bad news is that the unit's overall proportions are incorrect... The body shell is 28" too long. The extra length (6", 10" and 12") has been added to the short hood, cab and long hood respectively. At the same time, the overall wheelbase is 12" short, causing the ends to overhang an extra 20" at each end, further accentuating the appearance problem. The scale height and width are correct...

Plus, N scale of today is not the N scale of the '80s. We are blessed by a wide range of more accurate models, and we strive for more prototypical accuracy than we did 30 years ago (when we grabbed whatever was available, regardless of how bad it was).  We have it pretty good. Just look at howmany versions of GG1 or Big-Boy we are blessed with.   

[thomasjmdavis]

Both Kato and Atlas have had an occasional misstep over the past 30 years, but it is pretty clear that they both learned a lot in that experience with the GP-7/9, and have striven to produce good running, well proportioned, well decorated models ever since.

Looking back on that model, and when it came out, one of the upsides to the "old days" was that at least we could read the reviews and/or see a running prototype, before we plunked down $29 or $39 hard earned dollars to purchase.

As opposed to now, when we are frequently asked to commit to purchasing a $139 (or more) locomotive based on a low resolution GIF rendering which may or may not resemble what is then designed and manufactured by an unknown 3rd party Asian company, for delivery in 1 to 7 years, depending on the economic and political conditions prevailing in the intervening years.  In the modern day, almost all of my loco purchases (except Kato F units) have been on the secondary market (ebay, Trading Post, etc), or 2nd runs, when I have some idea what I'm going to get.

I never owned an Atlas-Kato GP-7/9.  I was all set to order a couple, but I had the opportunity to read that MR review (and others) and actually look at one before purchase.  Luckily, for me, my Atlas-Roco didn't split its gears until the first Atlas-China geeps became available- and my "vintage" Roco split the gear just about a week after I acquired 2 zebra-striped "classic" GP-7s.