Atlas/ Kato vs Atlas/ China running quality

[6axlepwr]

Is there any difference in the running quality of the Atlas-Kato GP30/GP35 model compared to the Atlas-China GP30/GP35 model?

I have only owned the Kato made models so I have been picking those up. But if the running qualities are no different than the China version. Then I guess it really does not matter.

Brian

[randgust]

Oh my goodness.

Well, for starters, the original Atlas-Kato is a lot heavier.   And Kato wheels have a magic sauce on them that has a better coefficient of friction on rail than any of the Atlas Classic wheels do.

The Atlas-Kato motor is the same as in the original SD45/SD40-2 and U30/C30 chassis, so if you're trying to do DC MU with those, works great. 

I had an Atlas GP35 and deliberately repowered it with one of the older chassis just to get it to MU better (and pull more) with my SD45's.

As an old DC guy, I'm strongly Kato.  They hold up really well, pull really hard, are quiet and dependable.   Atlas is 'OK', and I have four-axle classics and my CF7's are all powered with various Atlas chassis, but none of them outperform that original Atlas-Kato GP35 for tractive effort.  That's my biggest criticism of Atlas, the harder they work to make DCC and sound reliable the more they lighten frames, hollow out frames, and put in a harder, slicker wheelset to try to be electrically reliable.  And now hot-wiring the trucks.   And the pulling potential is maybe half what that original Atlas-Kato chassis will do.

The only Kato I've ever 'retired' was the original F-units that didn't have pickup wipers; they pulled like mules but were noisy.  My ABBA set was repowered with the DCC-compatible frame mechanisms last year, worth the fight for performance, and a powered ABBA set pulling nine cars isn't an issue for pulling power.

[jjb62556]

No drop in decoders on most, if not all  Atlas/Kato engine if you do DCC....

[sschnabl]

I have two of the Atlas China GP-35's and haven't had any issues with them, and I thought they pulled fairly decent.  Full disclosure:  I now model the transition era, so these have been pretty much shelf queens for quite some time, probably 10 - 15 years or so since I did not install decoders in them when I switched to DCC back in '05 or '06.

Scott

[randgust]

Well, it's still an answer to the old joke:

"Hi, how's your wife?"

A:  "Compared to what?"   

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The answer is: the China stuff is perfectly acceptable.
It doesn't have the swiss watch precision of the old Japan built stuff, but it's absolutely fine.
In fact, I'd argue that the newer China built stuff is actually better because most of it is far more DCC friendly.

What stuff are you looking at?

[Bill H]

Also note, AFAIK, the old KATO has the "high speed" motor, while most of the more modern Atlas China production has the new "slow speed" motor. That is essentially irrelevant if you are going DCC. Just a matter of reference.

[thomasjmdavis]

The 3 main advantages to Atlas/China are DCC readiness of most newer models, finer tooling of the shell, and having the coupler body mounted, thus not having the big gap in the front and rear frame to allow for truck mounted couplers. Of course, the latter can be addressed with MTL kits with parts to fill those gaps.  And in the case of the GP-7 and -9, Kato adapted their RS-2 chassis, and the wheelbase is visibly too short, so for those models, the Atlas-China have better appearance.

If you are running DC, then the Kato will run and run and run.  I have a couple of RS-2 chassis that will turn 40 in the next couple years, and they still run well.  And while I haven't done one yet, it looks like adapting a Kato to DCC wouldn't be any more difficult than adapting an Atlas-China "classic" to DCC.  And Atlas STILL hasn't got around to making its RS-1 DCC friendly, apparently relying on the TCS CN decoder or owner's ingenuity for other installations.

[nickelplate759]

To my way of thinking, there were two generations of Atlas/Kato locomotives.  The first generation does not have the axle-end pickup strips and relies instead on the truck frame for conduction.   The first generation includes the RS3 and misshapen GP7/9. I'm not sure about any others.  Second generation started with (I think) the SD9.

These were all great for their time, but are not as good as either the later Atlas-Kato or the Atlas-China engines.    Interestingly, my Atlas-China RS3 will outpull my heavier Atlas-Kato RS3.

The Atlas-Kato units with the axle-end pickups were and are terrific runners and pullers - My Atlas/Kato SD9s are just terrific (after adding body-mount couplers).

[peteski]

To my way of thinking, there were two generations of Atlas/Kato locomotives.  The first generation does not have the axle-end pickup strips and relies instead on the truck frame for conduction.   The first generation includes the RS3 and misshapen GP7/9. I'm not sure about any others.  Second generation started with (I think) the SD9.

That is the exact thing I was going to mention.  RS11 was one of those models too.  I also seem to recall that some RS3s or RS11s had the worms mounted directly on long motor shafts with no shaft bearing on the outer ends of the worms.  While that worked ok, to me that was not the best design (depending on the motor mount for perfect alignment of the worms).

Today's Kato models have come  long way from their earlier ones.  The Kato revolution has really started when they created Kato USA and went separate ways.  The first step was large flywheels on their first diesel (GP38-2), but the major innovation was the low-friction truck design first used in their C30s.

[6axlepwr]

So far I have only purchased Kato built GP35's. I was curious though about the China built ones and if they were just as good. I have not bought any of those yet. I have put DCC into on of them without any issues. Minimal removal of metal to retain as much weight as possible. I do not think I even removed 1/16 of an ounce. A little in the back to put the DCC board under the rear light board and a couple channels running along the top for the front headlight wires to sit in.

I buy the Kato made GP30 and 35's because those are what I remember that ran so well and pulled really good.

Brian

[brokemoto]

GP 30s and 35s are out of my era.  I have Atlas/Kato SD-7s, had SD-9s but never bought any Atlas-China SD-anythings.

Atlas/Kato and Atlas China RS-1s are about the same.  I sold all of mine, anyhow.

Atlas China GP-7s, 9s are better than Atlas/Kato.

Atlas China RS-3s are better than Atlas/Kato RS-3s.  The RSD-4s/5s are curious.  Overall, the Atlas-China do run more smoothly and more reliably but they do not pull as well as the Atlas/Kato RSD-4s/5s.  This is because the A/Ks are geared as are the prototypes:  C-C.  The Atlas Chinas are geared B-1-1-B.  You get something parallel in the Kato RS-2s.  The RSC-2 is geared C-C, unlike the prototype, which was A-1-A. 

The A/K RS and GPs were prone to stalling on my mediocre grade track work.  I had a few pairs that I had hardwired together which did address the stalling problem. The A/K RSD-4/5 did not have that same stalling problem, at least not as much.

[Olivani]

I buy the Kato made GP30 and 35's because those are what I remember that ran so well and pulled really good.

Brian

And they looked bloody good in Utah Railway colors and all the fine details   
(do you still have them or were they done for a client ?)

Oliver

[oakcreekco]

Interesting timing.

I've been running my Atlas "Classic" D&RGW GP30's the last few days. I run analog only in N.

The pair running now are as quiet and  smooth operating as any of my best Atlas/Kato units that I've had. Excellent slow speed control.

As far as a D&RGW modeler goes, the Atlas Classics have improvements on the body.

Much better paint and graphics, and the cab windows have the silver side window frames.

These also have a nose light with lense, but it's non functional.(On my to do someday list.

Overall, still a nice looking model IMO,

These can and do run as well as a Kato but, some need a little extra tuning  to achieve this.

My experience has been that the Atlas China units will have more of a corrosion issue on all contact areas than Kato units if not run on a regular basis.

The more I run them on a regular basis, the better they perform on a consistent basis.

[rrjim1]

The newer Atlas GP30/35 locos that I own are much better runners as far as slow scale speed, smoothness, and noise. They don't pull as much but thats not a problem for my railroad as my grade is only 1%. I own a bunch of kato built Atlas GP30/35 and every one has a scale speed Atlas motor instead of the higher speed kato motor. This allows them to be MU to the newer Atlas locos without a lot of speed matching.