Key Imports C-9

[ATSF_Ron]

Yes Max, that's the setup I have with the torque arm.  Do you happen to know the thread and/or size of that screw?  I have a few mini screws in a glasses repair kit.  Possibly one of those will match.  They look awfully short though.

In another interesting development, which may or may not be related to the torque arm, the loco won't pull worth beans.  After getting the running quality up to snuff, I set up a test loop of Unitrack on my dining room table.  If I try to pull more than 2 cars the wheels start spinning.  Traction tires are fine, wheels look aligned in the chassis, and when I place the connected loco and tender on the wood table, everything touches bottom as it should.  It's a very odd development.  I took my Oriental 2-8-0 and ran it as they seem like a similar design.  No problems with pulling power.  I did NOT test pulling power of the C-9 before repairing the running issue, so I can't fairly compare.  However, the one I owned years ago pulled just fine.  It was at least 15-20 cars if I recall.  Just now I thought I'd do some measuring with a digital scale.  The Key loco weighs 984 grams.  The Oriental weighs 975, obviously lighter but only by 9 grams.

Any thoughts on what might be going on there?

[ATSF_Ron]

Ooops, I meant grains, not grams.  It's a scale for measuring gunpowder.

[mmagliaro]

You can't tell by putting it on wood table.  The flanges don't necessarily bottom out the way the actual wheel tread surfaces do.
You need to put it on track, and then gently test things like:
1. Using tweezers, make sure you can wiggle the drawbar up and down at each end.  It should have some slight vertical
wiggle WITHOUT moving the engine or tender up and down.  If it doesn't, it can lift the engine up.

2. Same thing for the pilot and trailing trucks.

3. Shine a flashlight through where the driver treads touch the rails and make sure there's no gap between the wheel TREADS and the rail.
 

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks.  I'll try all that out.

[Mike Madonna]

Sure Mike. See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=36396.0
I can't believe it was over 7 years ago!

Peteski,

Well documented and executed! Thank you sir

[peteski]

Peteski,
Well documented and executed! Thank you sir

You're welcome, and thank you!

[ATSF_Ron]

Hi Peteski.  In your excellent write up on the H10 you mention "fashioning a washer."  Will you please elaborate on how you did that?  A couple of days ago I was working on my Pecos River 4-6-2 and had the infamous "lost forever in the carpet" episode of a critical washer.  I believe it's an insulating washer of some sort that fits on the screw that connects the tender drawbar to the loco.  It's a tiny washer, of course, and I have no idea how to fashion something that small.  Thank you, sir!

[peteski]

Thank you Ron.  Well, that was over 5 years ago and I dont' temember the specific details, and the loco was sent back to its owner.

I blew up the original photo containing all the parts:


Looks like the part I called a "washer" is likely the black sleeve in the picture.  If that one was partially melted, I probably turned a new one on my lathe from a a styrene or acrylic rod. It would be a sleeve with a rim on one of the ends.  Sort of like a top-hat with a hole drilled through it.

Is that what you are missing? The part which keeps the screw from touching the models metal frame?  Since this part has to tightly fit in the hole iin the frame while keeping the screw aligned inside it, while the rim has to prevent the spring from contacting the chassis. I don;t know an easy way to replicate it.

I would say your best bet is to try to find the original part.  Put a piece of panty hose or some other fine mesh over the vacuum cleaner hose end then start vacuuming the carpet.  Hopefully you will find the missing sleeve that way. Start at the location you think the part landed, but then extend your search area. Sometimes things like that can bounce several feet away.

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks Peteski.  Trust me, I tried everything I could think of, including the nylon stocking trick.  It's gone.  The one I lost looks more like the reddish colored one.  The motor wire is attached to a brass or possibly phosphor bronze eye shaped piece that is threaded and attaches to the end of the screw.  Between the eye shaped piece and the frame was the lost washer.  Do you know of a source for these tiny washers?  Could they possibly be made from ultra thin styrene?  I'm guessing that might not be possible.  Unfortunately the loco won't run without this washer.  It seems to short out without it.  Pity, as it's an excellent runner.

Thanks for the advice!

[peteski]

Thanks Peteski.  Trust me, I tried everything I could think of, including the nylon stocking trick.  It's gone.  The one I lost looks more like the reddish colored one.  The motor wire is attached to a brass or possibly phosphor bronze eye shaped piece that is threaded and attaches to the end of the screw.  Between the eye shaped piece and the frame was the lost washer.  Do you know of a source for these tiny washers?  Could they possibly be made from ultra thin styrene?  I'm guessing that might not be possible.  Unfortunately the loco won't run without this washer.  It seems to short out without it.  Pity, as it's an excellent runner.

Thanks for the advice!

Oh, if it was similar to the red washer, you should be able to fabricate one of those fairly easily.  That washer is made from some sort of thin paper board (probably resin-impregnated).  But any stiff material would likely work for it. Piece of 0.020' or maybe 0.030" thick styrene might work, but I would probably try to make one from material similar to the original one.

I would probably take  a small piece of thin cardboard (something like cereal box or similar), then soak it with thin viscosity CA glue. The glue will get absorbed into the cardboard, stiffening and hardening it.  Once the glue hardens (I would use accelerator to  speed up the process), you can then drill a hole in it for the screw to fit through, then take scissors to shape it into a washer.  It doesn't  even need to be round as long as it fits between the frame rails. The important thing is that it prevents the eyelet and the screw from touching the frame.

[Mike C]

   Microtrains has fiber washers that would probably work too .     Mike

[mmagliaro]

If you could give me some rough idea of dimensions, I have a fairly good stash of washers like that - nylon, fiber, delrin, etc.
I'd be happy to send it to you, but let's at least get close on the size.  That is... if you don't want to punch a hole in a piece of coated cardboard as Peteski suggests (which will work perfectly fine and would have you all fixed up in 20 minutes instead
of waiting for a washer in the mail!)

It looks a lot like the fiber ones I have been pulling off motor armatures for ages.

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks for the ideas, guys.  Peteski, my only concern with fashioning something that small would be holding onto it!  My best guess on size would be a diameter of around 0.125" and a thickness of 0.020" at most.  The length of the drawbar screw is the limitation.  It barely grabbed the threads of the piece that was soldered to the motor wire.  I did use a micrometer to estimate the measurements, which is hard to do with a missing washer.

Mike C, thanks for that reminder.  I have a TON of spare micro trains items, so I'll see what I have that might fit.

Max, thank you for the offer of the extra washer.  I may take you up on that if I can't use a micro trains part or find a simple way to make my own!

[peteski]

Ron,
if the other options do not pan out, I would think that you should be able to fabricate a washer.  The washer does not need to be round. You can make it rectangular. Start of with a piece of cardboard you can comfortable hold (like 1" square). Harden it with glue then drill a hole in the center.  Then using scissors trim around the hole on 3 sides. That leaves a strip of cardboard with a hole on one end. While holding the opposite end, make the final cut close to the hole, and you have your washer.

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks Peteski.  That doesn't sound too awful, lol!  It's just getting a bit harder at 60+.