B&M Fitchburg Division Planning

[garethashenden]

For most of the 20 years I've been in this hobby I assumed that I'd never have the space for a big layout, and as a result I kinda ignored advice on how to build them. I bought a house in September and I have a whole room to dedicate to trains. Its big enough that I can have an around the walls continuous run layout. I'm not going to dive in and start construction tomorrow, but I do want to start to think about it. I know what I want to model, and I think I know how I want to arrange it in broad terms, but I know there is a lot I don't know. I'm hoping that you can help point me in the direction of some resources on designing and building room sized layouts. Books, magazines, blogs, youtube videos, that sort of thing.

The layout I want to build is the Boston & Maine's Fitchburg Division mainline between Athol and Gardner Massachusetts in the early spring of 1971. A mixture of double and single track, long mainline freights with lots of first gen diesels, the occasional helper on heavy eastbound trains through a sparely populated section of central Mass. This will mostly be railfanning, but there is some operational potential if I'm in that mood. Not sure about staging and grades.

[Brian M]

Well, the first questions that come to mind are what are the dimensions of the room, and what is the overall floorplan (doors, windows, closet) of the room?  That kind of information can help guide what might be reasonable.

As for books, the Kalmbach shop has a few different ones geared towards smaller layout designs.  Here's one for shelf layouts:
https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/book/12419

-Brian.

[garethashenden]

The room is 11'x10'. One door in an extreme corner and one window centrally spaced on each of the external walls.

[Scottl]

That is a nice space to work with.  I essentially have the same set up for my new layout (in 13' X 13').  I've gone with a single deck, peninsula and gate across the door opening. 

[Cajonpassfan]

Congrats on the house, and the trainroom acquisition! May you enjoy both very much!

I believe you will find that 10x11 is not as much space as you'd like to model "mainline" trains believably.
So without putting labels on things, what would your 1971 era train look like to convey the image you're looking for?
Two/three four axle engines, umpteen cars, a caboose? How many cars, and how long is all that in feet, because that will represent a linear design unit around which the whole railroad will need to be designed. Double track makes it a little easier (fewer sidings) but it has its own set of limitations.

What is the minimum visible radius you can accept under your "design train" so that it looks and operates to your satisfaction?
16, 18, 20,24"? Less? More?

Given that train and your choice of geography, what kind of grades are appropriate? You mentioned a helper grade, how long does it need to be to be believable? Half way around the room? Once around? Are you considering a double deck (and all it entails)?

How much staging, if any, do you think you need? And is it hidden, where trains appear, do their thing, and disappear again? Or open staging, where a visible, scenicked yard serves a dual function, with all its limitations?

Ha, too many questions! But important I think to get you where you want to go. Your modeling skills are awesome (love that trestle with a switch on it!) so with that level of modeling, a 10x11foot layout could keep you busy for along time...

Best of luck, following with interest,
Otto

[garethashenden]

I'll lay out some stock and see what length looks good. I do know I want to keep the minimum radius broad, there will be lots of 89' piggyback flatcars in my future. They'll need to operate reliably and not look ridiculous while they're doing it.

I had been thinking of around the walls with one peninsula and staging under the peninsula. Maybe like these two: https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/n-scale-csx-indianapolis-sub/ https://www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/track-plan-database/wisconsin-central/

I believe its an average of 2% uphill eastbound. Gardner is the summit and its the only area the B&M ever needed helpers. Not everything needs a helper, but the unit coal trains definitely do. There is a Boston/Chicago piggyback train with runthough EL & D&H power that I want to model, along with NYC/Penn Central runthrough power on the coal trains. Aside from that its almost exclusively Bluebird GP9s.

Here are some pictures for flavor:

[garethashenden]

I've laid out some trains on the dining room table, one of the advantages of living alone is that I can do that! If we count the 89' flatcars as two cars, we have 34 cars, 4 locomotives, and a caboose for a grand total of 145". So that's 12'. Since they're mostly 50' cars we can take out three to bring it down to 11'. I think that could work, but staging is going to be a problem. Staging was always going to be the problem.

[Scottl]

I designed my slightly larger space for 11-12' trains.  It is doable.  I opted for visible staging for reliability.

[garethashenden]

Here's the room at the moment. Nothing in the room has to stay where it is. My workbench is 30" deep and if I'm honest that's too deep. Stuff gets lost in the middle distance. I think a 24" or even 18" HCD would be fine, but it will be under some portion of the layout, which is one of the main reasons I don't want to do some massive triple decker layout.





There is also a 27'x12' section of basement that is empty aside from the oil tanks. But its unfinished basement and that would add considerable delays and expenditure to the project, and I think that's more layout than I really want. So I'm going to try to fit it into this room.

[LIRR]

Always like the Bluebird scheme. My dad had an O-gauge B&M geep in that scheme.

Re: staging…..you’ll always decide later you didn’t provide enough. If you plan and decide ‘x’ is the right number, build 2x if you can.

Re: train length….(you didn’t say, HO?)…my room is 11x17 (HO). My mainline trains are 2 or 3 diesels, 14 cars and a caboose. Locals and turns use 2 units for about 8 - 10 cars.  There’s only 4 spots where the train stretches out between turnback blobs that you can see the entire train. And this is if the viewing angle is parallel along the track direction. If I’m looking perpendicular to the track at the train, you tend to watch the locos and first few cars. More than once I followed a train 2/3 of the way around the layout (about 70 linear feet) this way before noticing half the train was missing and left behind. Point being train length only important if you can see it. Train length is about 8 feet. In my N scale days in the same room, same train length was good for 3 units and about 17-18 cars.

Keep us posted with photos

R

[garethashenden]

Always like the Bluebird scheme. My dad had an O-gauge B&M geep in that scheme.

R

The Bluebirds are actually something of a limiting factor at the moment. Atlas did one run in 2005 with two numbers. I have three of those, two that someone custom painted and one that I custom painted. Plus three GP-18s, one that's done and two that need lots of work. That's two or three trains worth of power. Now I can supplement that with Fs, and GP7s, maybe even a RS3 once in a while, but that's always going to be the exception rather than standard practice. I'll need to paint a bunch more GP-9s at some point.

[garethashenden]

Here is a rough sketch of what I'm thinking. The baseboards are generally 12" deep, which is fairly arbitrary. 18" would give more scenery and narrower isles. Not pictured is a curved staging yard under the peninsula. I did draw it up on a separate layer. I can get four tracks, with the tightest being 15" radius. This will run over to the doorway and then up a helix to the layout. At least that' the current concept. This is all Atlas code 55 track, but I'll handlay all the turnouts when I actually build the thing, so a lot of the awkward geometry will be fixed. The Gardner yard is a through yard, I just didn't finish it. For reference, you are always looking North. That worked out better for fitting the prototype geometry to the space available.

[nickelplate759]

It looks like you only have about 18" clearance at a few places, such as between Athol and Gahdnah (sorry, Gardner), or between Baldwinville and the loop below it..  That's not likely to be enough for you to be comfortable building or operating the layout.  Even 24" is pretty tight - I'd try for 30", even at the expense of leaving out some scenery.

I do like the branch design overall, just worry about fitting 1:1 people in there.

[Cajonpassfan]

What George said, the isles wouldn't be comfortable for me, but then, I'm not a thin (or young) person. And for running modern equipment, with 85' cars, the radius just seems way too tight on the peninsula. You get a bit longer run, but it just won't look right imho, just my opinion...
I wonder given the room size whether you'd be better off doing an around the walls plan, with deeper scenes and maybe 😬 a partial double deck along a wall...or two😜 and having a comfortable "train room space" in the middle? The upper deck portion could be quite shallow...
Take it for what it's worth, or not.
Fun stuff,
Otto K.

[oakcreekco]

For myself, I won't go narrower than 30" for an aisle.

Yes I've given up some scenic and track area, but, when operating, I can turn around comfortably and not bump anything. Operating has to be enjoyable and safe for my 1:160 crews and equipment.

Just something to ponder.

Best of luck