Amtrak Heritage Fleet Coaches?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm realizing I probably need a heritage fleet coach or two for my "DC Broadway" and wanted to start canvassing the gang here for what I should be looking out for.

I have a feeling it'll probably be a search to find them, so I wanted to figure out what I should be searching for.

It seems like all the cool new passenger car releases are diners or sleepers but I've got my sleeper needs covered, so I'm curious about coaches.

I know Amtrak had a decent amount of them but I'm not really sure the best options for model versions.

By the way, if you want to see a weird mixing of eras photo featuring them, this is a good one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/guitartrain/52620326329/in/photostream/

Bill's got some great photos of an Amtrak P40 with a bunch of heritage coaches and a Conrail SD45-2 on the other end. The weird consist was the excursion train in use during Altoona Railfest.

[Point353]

I'd be searching for the Intermountain/Centralia coach.
https://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs6909.htm

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'd be searching for the Intermountain/Centralia coach.
https://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs6909.htm

I am now!

[nickelplate759]

Kato's smoothside (UP prototype) coach has been produced in Amtrak phase I (albeit a long time ago, and only in 4 or 6 car sets) and would also be appropriate.   You'd have to hunt for a used one - or paint one.

[thomasjmdavis]

Con Cor's Budd "twin window" was also done in a couple Amtrak schemes (ex ATSF). Their other Budd coach (CB&Q rebuild of 16 section sleepers) also I believe made it to Amtrak in real life, and they did Amtrak schemes on those as well. 

Here's a CB&Q coach still in California Zephyr lettering between 2 coaches in Amtrak paint-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23237485420/in/dateposted

[bbussey]

What era?  Shouldn't you be employing Amfleet coaches?  Kato offers I and II along with respective café cars.

[jagged ben]

A lot of the Amtrak heritage fleet continued to be used in the same general parts of the country as the railroads that contributed the rolling stock.  So exact prototypes you want may depend on the area you're modeling.

For example Kato's Southwest Limited is a great set but maybe not so much for eastern areas.

Edit: I realize you said coaches, and the Southwest Limited features sleepers. 

[bbussey]

In the northeast, which is what both Ed and I model, coaches tended to be Amfleet.

The Kato SW Limited is a great set for scrounging Heritage baggage and sleepers.  The Indian car is a great starting point for kitbashing NH Beach and State cars, and the 10-6 sleepers are good for northeast consists.  I unloaded the dome, ACF 4-4-2 and diner.  Much easier and cheaper to get five targeted cars this way than sourcing them individually.

[wm3798]

Amfleet was definitely the dominant flavor on the Corridor, but when the Broadway was still a thing, there was a lot of Heritage fleet, and the Florida Trains also had a lot even into the 90s.
I've got a smattering of Rivarossi and Rowa cars that will likely need a home as the theme for my next project evolves.  If you're willing to overlook their ancient origins and obvious shortcomings, I'm sure they could be weathered up and inserted into a consist that passes the 3 feet away rule.

Lee

[daniel_leavitt2000]

If I remember correctly, all smooth side coaches were off the trains east of Chicago by the first Amfleet delivery. Heritage coaches soldiered on until the early 90's.

[nickelplate759]

It all kind of depends on when...
Even for Phase I - Amfleets required HEP.  A lot of Heritage cars were still steam when Amfleets were delivered.  So only converted Heritage cars could be mixed with Amfleet.
I road the Phase I Broadway, and it was all Heritage at the time (sorry, don't remember the year, but circa 1980).

[milw156]

The Broadway Limited? What year(s) are you looking at? I have "Amtrak Consists" 3rd edition (up to 8/1977) as well as "Zephyrs, Chiefs, and Other Orphans" that covers up until 1976. Car numbers and railroads (if not Amtrak) are given. I know very little about trains east of Chicago, but these 2 books may provide what you are looking for, provided it was before 1977.
Rick

[C62-2]

These cars were converted to HEP in 1980 for the Broadway Limited (I found this on the internet somewhere in the past - sorry for the lack of credit!)

Converted 68 Cars for Long Distance Service on the Broadway Limited - Cars Converted 1980 (= converted to HEP)

Car Series Car Type Builder Total Heritage Service Status 
1155 ~ 1158 Baggage ACF 4 PC-NYC Broadway LTD HEP  
1614 ~ 1617 Baggage Dorm SLC 4 US ARMY Broadway LTD HEP  
2080 ~ 2088 Slumber-Coach Budd 9 BN-NP&CBQ Broadway LTD HEP 
2884 ~ 2894 Sleeper 10-6 Budd 11 UP Broadway LTD HEP 
3106 ~ 3111 Lounge Budd 6 ATSF Broadway LTD HEP 
4700 ~ 4729 Coach 48 Seat Budd 30 ATSF Broadway LTD HEP 
8505 ~ 8508 Diner Budd 4 BN-CBQ&NP Broadway LTD HEP 

[brokemoto]

Your era is shortly post-Agnes?  This would have me guessing 1974-80?  I would assume eighteen months to two years for the rebuilding of the Northern Central on your time line, which is how I am arriving at my guess.  Correct me if I am in error.  Clearly, you are out of the rainbow era.  If the AMTRAK National Limited is at all instructive, it appears to be mostly corrugated cars, even the baggage.  Even in the early era of the FP-40s, the National Limited is still using Es and passenger Fs, but painted in AMTRAK colors. 

The first AMfleets showed up some time in the mid-1970s; after 1975 but before 1978, but I forget the exact dates.  Those were designed for Boston-New York-Washington.  Some time between 1979 and 1982, again, I forget exactly when, Budd did deliver a longer distance version of the AMcan.  If your era is before 1979 or so, I would go with the corrugated.  The photographs of the National Limited that I have seen that were after Rainbow but before 1979, -80, or so, rarely show a smooth side.  The last years of the National Limited do show the AMcans.  I would assume that those are long distance AMcans.  AMTRAK dropped the National Limited some time around 1980-82.

The Heritage sleepers were still running as late as 1991.  I rode in one on the Capitol Limited to Chicago in the summer of that year.








While I have you, Ed, are the cars that you are using for your Parkton Local the B-mann, MT or BLI?  The MT is based on a B&O HW but it is pretty close to the BLI.  The BLI does appear to be about two to three scale feet longer than the MT.  The B-mann is almost identical to the MT.  One difference that you notice immediately is that while the MT does have a one piece window on the doors, the B-mann and BLI have split windows on their doors.  This is in keeping with B&O and Penn practice, respectively.  Some have mentioned that the B-mann is based on a Penn coach.  It is possible that the prototypes do have a common origin as the Penn did control the B&O for a brief period in the very late nineteenth and very early twentieth centuries.

[nkalanaga]

There were still unrepainted cars in the Empire Builder at least as late as 1975, mostly because Amtrak leased a lot of cars from BN.  They didn't expect to have two Chicago-Seattle trains, and when Congress told them to add the North Coast Hiawatha, they had to scramble to find enough cars.  So, like F-units and 40 foot boxcars, GN, NP, and BN passenger cars survived longer than many other regions.

And, if you want ConCor Budd Amtrak cars, some are still available from ConCor.  They don't have Phase I, but it isn't hard to backdate Phase II or III cars with white paint and MicroScale "pointless arrow" decals.  I've done it with their dome coaches.
https://www.con-cor.com/shop/n-budd-amtrak-phase-iii/

They also have smoothside cars in phase II, but those would need a lot of work to look right with newer models.
https://www.con-cor.com/shop/n-smoothside-amtrak-phase-ii/