Author Topic: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains  (Read 10727 times)

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Sokramiketes

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #105 on: May 31, 2023, 02:09:38 PM »
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[This post and the next several were moved from my Layout Engineering thread for improved visibility. -gfh]

The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Well, it's been a long time, but TBC has finally reopened for operations after nearly 4 years or operational inactivity.  We have an annual modellers meet every year in BC (except during COVID) and as part of it, we have nearly 10 Vancouver-area layouts open for operating sessions.  I hosted two this past weekend with 4 guest crew members each day and it was great to see things come back to life.  Here are a few takeaways from the sessions.  [These notes are mostly just rambling for my future self.  Read on as you wish.]

The good.  The layout ran well, with a few minor exceptions noted below, and no cars or locos were harmed in the process.  :)  I've added a few mirrors in the back of the Vortex so crew members can follow their trains more easily when they are traversing the one-turn helix between the lower and upper deck, and that seemed to work well.  I've also improved the virtual signal panels that are displayed on the fascia and people had no trouble reading the appropriate virtual signals for CPs where the physical signals were not yet installed.

The bad.  Each session had one mystery short that tied up the session for 10 minutes or so.  The first was tracked down to an ExactRail gon that had an axle that was intermittently rubbing against a screw head on the coupler box and a wheel flange that was intermittently rubbing against the underframe in curves when the weight of the train behind it was applied.  What a PITA is was to track that down.  The second was when a sound-equipped SD70ACe ran a trailing point turnout that was lined against it.  (Curiously, the short did not clear by backing the train - by hand - off the turnout.  It was not until I physically pulled the loco off the tracks that the short cleared.)

The other issue I need to come to terms with is managing the serial staging in the Mojave helix.  Southbound trains pile up there and need to be flushed into the storage yard below and it is all to easy to let that slide and to have collisions when people are not paying close enough attention.  In one case, a train was parked a foot behind the train ahead of it, but the throttle was unwittingly left at speed step 1 so the train creeped for a foot before rear-ending the train in front of it, sending some cars over the edge.  Fortunately there was no damage.

The ugly. Before the sessions, I made a pretty big push to convert some more cars to FVM wheels with one resistor-equipped axle per car.  As I started dipping into my newly acquired Scale Trains branded FVM wheels with .540" axles, I soon realized that these do not roll in the 100-ton BLMA/Atlas trucks!  (Nor in my MTL 1035 trucks.)  WTF?  The axle length does indeed check in at .540" on the nose with my callipers, but the BLMA wheels are more like .537-.538" and that seems to make the difference between rolling and not rolling.  Boy was I pissed to discover that.  I'd be curious to know if anyone else has experienced this.

While the FVM were marketed as .540, I seem to remember most measuring in the .538 range.  Maybe that clearance was lost in the conversion and new tooling set up. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 06:53:29 PM by GaryHinshaw »

GaryHinshaw

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #106 on: May 31, 2023, 04:08:31 PM »
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While the FVM were marketed as .540, I seem to remember most measuring in the .538 range.  Maybe that clearance was lost in the conversion and new tooling set up.

That's what it seems like to me.  The significant stash of resistor-equipped wheels I have, which pre-date Scale Trains, are more like .538".  It's amazing to me that it makes such a difference, but it does.  I'm going to try and track down a good reamer to see if I can make these new ones work.  (There was a good one from the UK IIRC.)  These are still my favourite wheels.

peteski

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #107 on: May 31, 2023, 04:33:55 PM »
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I'm going to try and track down a good reamer to see if I can make these new ones work.  (There was a good one from the UK IIRC.)

I bought it and was disappointed. The cutting edges are not very sharp.  The slippery POM plastic trucks are made from really needs a sharp tool to cut it cleanly.  Before finding that tool, I was planning on making one using 1/8" shank single-flute HSS countersinks from Granger. They are well made, and have sharp pcutting edge. Looks like I'll still  have to do that.
. . . 42 . . .

GaryHinshaw

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #108 on: May 31, 2023, 05:28:06 PM »
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I bought it and was disappointed.

Sorry to hear that, but thanks for saving me the time & money.  Do you have a link to the Grainger countersink you're thinking of?

peteski

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #109 on: May 31, 2023, 07:29:57 PM »
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Sorry to hear that, but thanks for saving me the time & money.  Do you have a link to the Grainger countersink you're thinking of?

Actually it wasn't from Grainger (they don't have good selection of those).  I got it from MSC.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/01050087

I bought 2 of them and the plan is to shorten them so I can make a double-ended countersink that fits N scale truck sideframe.  With 1/8" diameter shank, that will be a bit awkward,but I think it will work out.  I will join them by either gluing or soldering them together using a piece of brass tubing as a splice.

Since both cut in the same direction, the reamer will have to be twirled back and forth.
. . . 42 . . .

robert3985

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #110 on: June 01, 2023, 10:09:49 AM »
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Actually it wasn't from Grainger (they don't have good selection of those).  I got it from MSC.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/01050087

I bought 2 of them and the plan is to shorten them so I can make a double-ended countersink that fits N scale truck sideframe.  With 1/8" diameter shank, that will be a bit awkward,but I think it will work out.  I will join them by either gluing or soldering them together using a piece of brass tubing as a splice.

Since both cut in the same direction, the reamer will have to be twirled back and forth.

@peteski   Peter, did you get the one flute countersink or the 6 flute countersink?  From the photos it looks as if the one-flute version has a sharper tip, although I can't be sure from the photos if the "sharp" tip is just an artifact of the photo angle or actually goes down to a perfect center.

Upon thinking about it, the counter-clockwise end wouldn't need to be an active countersink, but would be purposed just to hold the cutting side perpendicular to the truck sideframe, making cutting flutes superfluous.  A small 60deg cone with its nose rounded off would probably be "safer" and perform the exact same function, or, you could round off the counter-clockwise countersink's tip so it wouldn't mess up the tip of the inverted bearing cone it will be sitting in.

I can't remember if you've got a lathe, but making a "holding/centering" piece out of aluminum or brass would be a pretty simple operation and ensure that the bore holding your ground-off HSS countersink and the 60deg "bud" on the other end would be centered with each other, making for a more precise fit, which may not be really necessary, but nice to know, and you could engineer in a set-screw to hold your HSS countersink, allowing for some easy adjustment.

Just thinkin'...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore




Cajonpassfan

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #111 on: June 01, 2023, 12:03:04 PM »
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I don't know, all this just seems like way too much trouble to ream out .001".
This maybe heresy to some, but how about a few gentle twists with a sharp #11 blade? I've done that on a handful of trucks that didn't roll well with replacement wheelsets with success...
Otto

peteski

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #112 on: June 01, 2023, 02:11:35 PM »
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@peteski   Peter, did you get the one flute countersink or the 6 flute countersink?  From the photos it looks as if the one-flute version has a sharper tip, although I can't be sure from the photos if the "sharp" tip is just an artifact of the photo angle or actually goes down to a perfect center.

Upon thinking about it, the counter-clockwise end wouldn't need to be an active countersink, but would be purposed just to hold the cutting side perpendicular to the truck sideframe, making cutting flutes superfluous.  A small 60deg cone with its nose rounded off would probably be "safer" and perform the exact same function, or, you could round off the counter-clockwise countersink's tip so it wouldn't mess up the tip of the inverted bearing cone it will be sitting in.


It is a single-flute countersink. I prefer those for this type of task (and for most of my countersinking tasks as they basically self-center.)

I still want to have double ended countersink for reaming the truck cups. When I spin it clockwise, the right end will while the opposite one keeps it centered. When I spin it counter clockwise, the left side will cut.
. . . 42 . . .

GimpLizard

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #113 on: June 01, 2023, 03:14:47 PM »
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It is a single-flute countersink. I prefer those for this type of task (and for most of my countersinking tasks as they basically self-center.)

I still want to have double ended countersink for reaming the truck cups. When I spin it clockwise, the right end will while the opposite one keeps it centered. When I spin it counter clockwise, the left side will cut.

You mean something like this? https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bearing-reamers-set-of-two-n/

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« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 03:16:47 PM by GimpLizard »

peteski

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2023, 04:03:05 PM »
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Yes, those were the set I bought, and they are not very sharp. The 2-flutes are not even centered correctly.  They are also too long, so the truck sideframes have to be really stretched out to fit the reamer in the cups.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 07:06:50 PM by peteski »
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EJN

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #115 on: June 02, 2023, 12:20:47 AM »
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...nm
« Last Edit: June 02, 2023, 10:08:19 AM by EJN »

nkalanaga

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #116 on: June 02, 2023, 02:01:22 AM »
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Precision Masters used to make plastic wheels, and specifically made 0.536 inch sets for KD/MT, as well as 0.543 inch for old Atlas, and MDC/Roudhouse trucks.
N Kalanaga
Be well

JeffB

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #117 on: June 02, 2023, 06:11:52 AM »
+1
I bought it and was disappointed. The cutting edges are not very sharp.  The slippery POM plastic trucks are made from really needs a sharp tool to cut it cleanly.  Before finding that tool, I was planning on making one using 1/8" shank single-flute HSS countersinks from Granger. They are well made, and have sharp pcutting edge. Looks like I'll still  have to do that.

Same...  I've found the pointed axle bearing cleanout tools (drills) lack the sharpness to bite into the Delrin/nylon that a lot of commercial trucks are made from.

I use Ti coated 000  and 0000 countersink/centerdrills now (McMaster Carr)...  I've found that the drill point provides really good clearance for the axle end, especially on some axles where the point is not formed as cleanly as it should be.

Jeff

Lemosteam

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2023, 10:25:54 AM »
+2
Truly,  I've written this before and I'll write it again. Please try a Dremel spherical engraving bit by hand to clean out a truck pocket.

It will ALWAYS find the center of the molded cone as you clean the pocket, and the conical axle will see less friction on a sphere as a single point contact.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/tools/power-tool-accessories/multitool-accessories/2377307

The beauty is that the bit can be used at an angle and does not have to be aligned with the pocket axis like a drill or countersink and is long enough to handle past the opposite truck sideframe.  I like to add a pieces of shrink wrap to the shank to add gtip for spinning it in my fingers.

I have this set too which has even smaller diameter cutters:
https://www.amazon.ca/Eurotool-Round-Bur-Set/dp/B0058ECHCC


GaryHinshaw

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Re: A week of wheels: FVM wheels in at Scaletrains
« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2023, 10:58:11 AM »
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Ahh, great tips!  (pun intended)  Thanks, I'll give those tools a try. 

I'm mainly working with .540" ST/FVM wheels and Atlas/BLMA 100T trucks, and I was able to have some success last night by simply filing the inside of the truck frame down a wee bit and making sure the pocket was clean afterwards.  I think most of the resistance is coming from the base of the axle tip pressing against the rim of the cup and a few thou there makes a big difference in the amount of friction.  I'm optimistic that my investment in these new wheels will not be wasted.