Two Rapido FP9A's - Both Dead

[BCR751]

Pulled out my two N-Scale Rapido FP9A's for some turns around the layout.  Both units have the Loksound V5 decoder. The headlights work, the bell and horn work, that annoying squeal on startup works but no motor movement or engine sound on either unit.  Neither one is in a consist.  I set CV8 to '8' for a factory reset but still no joy.  Both of these units ran fine when they were taken off the layout a couple of months ago.  Any suggestions?

Doug

[peteski]

That is odd Doug.
So it seems that the decoder is responsive (lights and some sounds work), but no diesel sound or motor control?
So the motor sound does not start when you turn on F8?

If you happen to have the DC mode enabled on the decoder, can you try it on DC? Just to see what it does.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Strangely enough, I put my Kato GS4 (equipped with LS5 58731 sound decoder) on my test oval just moments ago.  It had been a few weeks since it was last used, so wanted to let it toot around for a bit.  Precisely the same problem … whistle, bell, lights all work, but no F8 engine chuffs and no movement whatsoever.  Had to run out, so haven’t been able to troubleshoot at all. Weird. 

[Rivet Miscounter]

Not apples to apples, but I had almost the exact same issue with an Atlas SD60 with factory-equipped Loksound decoder.  Startup sounds, bell, light etc but no motor sounds and no movement.  It was the first time I put it on the track, and my first loco purchase upon returning to N.   So...new loco, new track, and new Zephyr Xtra.   I just though I had somehow done something wrong or didn't do something necessary, (or that it was the Zephyr) but then eventually I had decided it must be a dead motor.   

Later that day I got a package with two other Atlas/Loksound locos (geeps), and discovered they both worked fine.   Then I tried the SD60 again and initially I thought it was still dead, but the engine noise was present this time.  It apparently just has a very lengthy startup sequence and eventually started moving.   (and yes, I was waiting a sufficient time before...it truly was not moving initially, and no engine sound.)

So all that to say, could be some sort of Loksound issue?   I'm new at sound so I just figured it was some known thing and it hasn't happened again since.

[John]

Decoders are electronics - subject to static discharges .. it's that time of year when you can introduce some static - and if you happen to be touching the wheels at the same time, you can scramble the decoder brains .. also over time, some decoders will loose some of the stored info ..

I keep all my decoder info for each loco in JMRI - so it's easy to restore the program if it gets fried ..

[thomasjmdavis]

I'm no expert, and don't have any advice to offer.  But what surprises me (and could be a clue?) is that 2 units have the identical problem.  I've had decoder issues, but never "paired" like that.

[C855B]

Something else to consider... I have had issues in the past with a decoder on a different locomotive altogether that happened to be on the layout glitching things. Be sure you are running the suspect locos in isolation before determining that there is something wrong with them.

[BCR751]

Not apples to apples, but I had almost the exact same issue with an Atlas SD60 with factory-equipped Loksound decoder.  Startup sounds, bell, light etc but no motor sounds and no movement.  It was the first time I put it on the track, and my first loco purchase upon returning to N.   So...new loco, new track, and new Zephyr Xtra.   I just though I had somehow done something wrong or didn't do something necessary, (or that it was the Zephyr) but then eventually I had decided it must be a dead motor.   

Later that day I got a package with two other Atlas/Loksound locos (geeps), and discovered they both worked fine.   Then I tried the SD60 again and initially I thought it was still dead, but the engine noise was present this time.  It apparently just has a very lengthy startup sequence and eventually started moving.   (and yes, I was waiting a sufficient time before...it truly was not moving initially, and no engine sound.)

So all that to say, could be some sort of Loksound issue?   I'm new at sound so I just figured it was some known thing and it hasn't happened again since.

Are you saying that you just left the loco alone and all of a sudden the motor and sound started by themselves?  Or, were you holding down the F8 key until you got the sound and motor movement?

Doug

[BCR751]

That is odd Doug.
So it seems that the decoder is responsive (lights and some sounds work), but no diesel sound or motor control?
So the motor sound does not start when you turn on F8?

If you happen to have the DC mode enabled on the decoder, can you try it on DC? Just to see what it does.

That's correct, when F8 is pressed, no motor sound and there is no movement.  I haven't tried it on DC.  I don't think I enabled it in the decoder either.

Doug

[Rivet Miscounter]

Are you saying that you just left the loco alone and all of a sudden the motor and sound started by themselves?  Or, were you holding down the F8 key until you got the sound and motor movement?

No, F8 didn't help anything.   But, I had eventually removed the loco from the tracks to test the other 2.    Since that exercise had pretty well eliminated dirty track and bad Zephyr I decided to put the original problem child back on the tracks to see if I could troubleshoot further....and that's when it started working.   (keeping in mind I had tried numerous troubleshooting steps before....pulling power from Zephyr, checking connections, checking settings, dispatching and re-adding the loco, etc. and nothing changed).  Up to that point, I had not changed the default address either....didn't do any of that (consisting, etc) until several days later to make sure it was going to continue working normally.

Anyway, I don't want to detract from troubleshooting the o.p.'s issue, but it just made me wonder about my issue.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Revisited my particular problem.  I remember having my Morning Daylight GS4 consisted with a Southern Pacific E8 the last time I ran it … as an excursion train. 

I use an NCE PowerCab.  I first used the “Browse Consists” feature to verify that all previous consists had been cleared.  The GS4 continued to misbehave - whistle, bell, lights all work, but no steam sound and no motion.

So, just for the heckuvit, I put the E8 back on the track, formed a consist, and both locos fired up and ran perfectly.  After a few laps around the test oval, I cleared the consist, and both are working properly, and independently. 

BCR751 - my guess is that you probably ran these two Rapidos as a consist, no?   Try consisting them again, see if they work that way, then clear the consist and see if normal operation can be restored.  Good luck.  By the way,  I’ve also got two of those FP9A’s, and pretty much always run them in consist, but now you’ve got me curious to see if they can be run separately without a bit of a work-around. 

[peteski]

BCR751 - my guess is that you probably ran these two Rapidos as a consist, no?   Try consisting them again, see if they work that way, then clear the consist and see if normal operation can be restored.  Good luck.  By the way,  I’ve also got two of those FP9A’s, and pretty much always run them in consist, but now you’ve got me curious to see if they can be run separately without a bit of a work-around.

I would say that as long as you manually program CV19=0 in those locos, they will run independently using their original addresses. But I think with NCE things are not as simple.  That is because NCE keeps track of consist info and can alias the advanced consist as the address of one of the locos.  You manually setting CV=0 will likely confuse ESU.

But since you have LokProgrammer, that is like separate independent DCC system.  You could take the locos consisted in NCE (without breaking up the consist), place them on LokProgrammer track, set CV19=0 (write down what the previous value was) then try running them on LokProgrammer throttle using their "real" address.  Once you are done with t the test, just set the CV19 to whatever the previous value was and place them back on NCE controlled track. This way the NCE not get confused.

[BCR751]

I decided to start from scratch after hearing that @Dwight in Toronto had success doing a re-consist setup.  First, I did a "Browse Consists" and saw that there was indeed a consist number for these two locos but it had no resemblance to the one I used previously.  So, I set CV8 to '8' to go back to the factory defaults.  I then re-programmed each loco from scratch with its own unique long address and set up a new consist.  Put them on the track and they ran flawlessly.  I have no idea how these locos managed to pick up a totally different consist number but that sure explains why they wouldn't run when I was using the original one.  Problem(s) solved.  Thanks to all who provided guidance.

Doug

[peteski]

That's good to hear.

As the question was also posed on the groups.io, which DCC system do you use?

[BCR751]

That's good to hear.

As the question was also posed on the groups.io, which DCC system do you use?

Sorry, I got so wound up in the decoder issue I forgot to mention that.  I'm using an NCE Power Pro with the wireless radio option.

Doug