Brick & Mortar

[TrainCat2]

Forgive the newbie level of these two questions, it has been a LONG time since I did any brick structure modeling. I primed my kit bash last night with red oxide primer. I began wondering about mortar lines in N as the brick lines in DPM kits are SUPER faint. Almost not existent. The brick lines on the Atlas Middlesex are better, but the lines are still very small. This got me to thinking how most people today are (or if) doing the mortar joints. Back in the day on my last layout, I used Polly Scale concrete over the brick color and then buffed it off. I do remember though that the brick was larger out of scale and better defined allowing for the mortar paint to stay in the crevasses. Fast forward 30 years …..

Being this layout is based in the 40’s and 50’s, most of the brick buildings around Delaware Ave would have been around for at least +50 years and accumulated a lot of dirt, soot, coal gas, cinders, etc. Not having color images of buildings in that era, I can only make edjumacated guesses to the depth of grime. I’m wondering about skipping mortar lines all together and just using washes of India Ink and alcohol (obtained from Publicker at the end of the layout) along with other Vallejo washes to achieve that old dirty, gritty look that I am sure was there. Thoughts ??

My second question is about signage over the brick. I am assuming most people are not having custom white decals made and are making paint masks for the lettering directly on the wall. I can do this with my graphics cutter but wanted to see if people have a lot of issues with bleeding due to the brick lines and paint masks.

[CRR Chase]

Give this a look for your mortar.
https://www.amazon.com/TAMIYA-87131-Panel-Accent-Plastic/dp/B01EPX3IOM?th=1

and the pen..
https://www.amazon.com/WSDMAVIS-Permeation-Scrubbing-Infiltration-Enthusiast/dp/B08JGFFXKP/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_w=fAzcD&content-id=amzn1.sym.116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_p=116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_r=75P90S4439PT39RDMNF4&pd_rd_wg=y8cq6&pd_rd_r=a6247bb0-23fb-442e-8920-fb29b47ecdd2&pd_rd_i=B08JGFFXKP&psc=1

[CRR Chase]

Give this a look for your mortar.
https://www.amazon.com/TAMIYA-87131-Panel-Accent-Plastic/dp/B01EPX3IOM?th=1

and the pen..
https://www.amazon.com/WSDMAVIS-Permeation-Scrubbing-Infiltration-Enthusiast/dp/B08JGFFXKP/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_w=fAzcD&content-id=amzn1.sym.116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_p=116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_r=75P90S4439PT39RDMNF4&pd_rd_wg=y8cq6&pd_rd_r=a6247bb0-23fb-442e-8920-fb29b47ecdd2&pd_rd_i=B08JGFFXKP&psc=1

Also they sell this in different colors.. I use black to outline panels on the locos

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Personally, I think that mortar lines almost always make brick structures look too toylike because of the oversized nature of them.

I haven't found the solution yet though.

[wazzou]

boB -

This is done with Gold Medal All Purpose Flour, sealed with Dullcote.



This one is done with the method I use most which is Light Weight Spackle applied with an artist Oil Paint trowel and wiped off with a very slightly damp rag or t-shirt.

[davefoxx]

Yep, lightweight spackling here, too.  I just saw a video where they recommended thinning the spackle with water and adding paint to tint the “mortar.”  I haven’t tried those tips yet, but they seem worth a try.

Hope this helps,
DFF

[thomasjmdavis]

Having spent my teens and young adulthood in Chicago, one of the things I noticed that a lot of folks miss is that often, on the front wall of a building (that is, facing the street), the mortar will have color added to it to approximate the color of the brick (or stone).  The lines are there, but much less contrast than the sides or back of the building, with plain "white" mortar.  Where possible, look at a photo of some buildings in the areas you are modeling.  It was also common practice to use uniform red (or other color) brick on the face of the building, and "common" brick in brown and/or more random colors around the sides and back.

Here are some "random" residential brick buildings-  the same would be true for industrial buildings as well.  The one I owned for several years had dark red brick with brown mortar on the front, and the rest of the building varied from tan to almost black brick, with light mortar.

https://www.architecture.org/learn/resources/buildings-of-chicago/building/two-and-three-flats/

My "go to" has been "concrete" color cheap acrylic paint (ie- Walmart craft paint).  I've also used davefoxx's suggested method of mixing some brown and gray into spackle with some success.  One suggestion for either (and for most weathering)- when rubbing off excess, use vertical strokes.  Any remaining material becomes "water stains"-

[TrainCat2]

Bryan, was the flour applied wet or dry? While cooking (aka reheating) dinner, I applied some dry flour, but I was not able to keep in the mortar cracks.

As for looking at existing buildings in the area, I-95 and pier redevelopment took out almost every one. There is one left, the US Army Supply Base at Pier 98. Here is what it looks like. You can clearly see how dirty and grimy the building still is.

[cec209]

I've had pretty good results from Roberts Brick Mortar.

https://www.southsidetrains.com/RobertsBrickMortar.aspx

Charlie

[wazzou]

boB -
The flour is put on dry and moved around with one of those big, wide and fluffy makeup brushes, keeping in mind the goal is to leave the flour in the joints but to clean the brick faces, which requires very light pressure.

[TrainCat2]

I must be spastic. I could not get the flour to stay in the grout lines. So I am making some test pieces to try oil washes. The colors I want to use arrive either Friday or Saturday. I have no clue if this will actually work but is does for dark accents. Why not light? First the red oxide primer.



Then some dry brushing to get color variations. I misplaced my 00 brush so I could not do the window frames just yet. I will seal this with dull coat tonight so nothing affects this layer.

[peteski]

The brick walls in your kit boB have fairy shallow mortar lines.  The old Pola (or Faller) kit on which wazzou used flour has very deep mortar lines. That might be the difference.

[TrainCat2]

Yeah Pete, the DPM kits, the Atlas Middlesex kit and the JTT Embossed brick sheet have shallow lines. The jTT sheets has the shallowest of the three.

I am digging the weathered wall and if I can't get great mortar lines, I won't be heart broken.

Bump about signage directly on the brick using paint masks.

[peteski]

You could still try using one of the wet paste mortars like spackling or Roberts Brick Mortar mentioned earlier by Charlie.

I guess masks will work for signage. Just don't airbrush the paint on too wet so it doesn't get into the mortar lines under the mask.

[dem34]

Theres also the DKS method which is White Guache paint lathered on then wiped off the tops of the bricks.

And mine which is to paint the bricks a mortar color then drybrush a brick color.