Fluted Side Diners coming from Lowell Smith / Railsmith

[Sokramiketes]

I'd probably go in on the Royal Gorge if I knew the baggage cars would be ru-run.

Jason

He has run four D&RGW baggage cars so far.  So first, where have you been, and second, I could see a third run since they appear to be popular!

You can also keep your eye out for a WoT baggage.  They have the D&RGW look as well. 

Come on in the water is fine, in the Lowell Smith marketing model...

[thomasjmdavis]

        Just announced by Lowell, more road names on the Fluted  Side Diners, Rio Grande, Santa Fe, Southern, Rock Island, Golden State also Rio Grande Prospector and Royal Gorge trains, and Santa Fe Texas Chief and Grand Canyon train consists. Nate Goodman. (Nato).

Unfortunately, to date, all of the Santa Fe cars are stand ins at best.  I'm kinda hoping he tools up a PS 44 seat fluted coach- as he has seemed willing recently to do some new body styles.  I don't need any, if I get off my duff and assemble all the M&R sides I have, but it would be nice to see in the marketplace, and those would have been frequently used on the Texas Chief, and in latter years also on the Grand Canyon. 

[Sokramiketes]

Unfortunately, to date, all of the Santa Fe cars are stand ins at best.  I'm kinda hoping he tools up a PS 44 seat fluted coach- as he has seemed willing recently to do some new body styles.  I don't need any, if I get off my duff and assemble all the M&R sides I have, but it would be nice to see in the marketplace, and those would have been frequently used on the Texas Chief, and in latter years also on the Grand Canyon.

I get it from both sides.  As a Santa Fe modeler, the RailSmith stuff isn't too exciting because we have such a bounty of prototype cars.  The big holes in ATSF are Big Dome, Blue series 10-3-2, and the 44 seat coach you mentioned.  With those you could model almost every Santa Fe train with off the shelf models. 

From Lowell's side, how do you ignore Santa Fe since it's a huge market?  The trains he picked are clever to get folks around his concept of "Build A Train".  That's the marketing genius because passenger is a foreign land for many. 

[wcfn100]

He has run four D&RGW baggage cars so far.  So first, where have you been, and second, I could see a third run since they appear to be popular!

I've really only been picking up cars that I can try and use for my 60's era Waterloo stuff.  I've skipped much of the RI stuff because it's GS centric same with IC because it's all CoM.  Also, by the 60's the diners and sleepers were all gone. I did get the IC baggage, a couple RI coaches and pre-ordered the RI RPO.


The D&RGW wouldn't normally be on by radar, but the Royal Gorge came through Colorado Springs.  If I can sell some of my excess stuff, I could see myself taking the plunge on the RG.

Jason

[thomasjmdavis]

I get it from both sides.  As a Santa Fe modeler, the RailSmith stuff isn't too exciting because we have such a bounty of prototype cars.  The big holes in ATSF are Big Dome, Blue series 10-3-2, and the 44 seat coach you mentioned.  With those you could model almost every Santa Fe train with off the shelf models. 

From Lowell's side, how do you ignore Santa Fe since it's a huge market?  The trains he picked are clever to get folks around his concept of "Build A Train".  That's the marketing genius because passenger is a foreign land for many.

Confession: I've been running Kato coaches and baggage cars from their original Budd sets since those were released many years ago, so I don't mean my comment as a complaint.  Just an observation.

It really doesn't bother me, other than a few of Lowell's fans (among my acquaintances) assume everything he does is "better than Kato" and more accurate, even though Lowell himself distinguishes between prototypical and "classic."  And the trains he is selling will be as close as the Kato Budd ATSF sets of 20-25 years ago (based on CB&Q prototypes).  Both of which were huge improvements over the multiple foobie ATSF schemes done by Con-Cor on their smoothside cars.  The 44 seat coach would be the car that would most help the 2 trains Lowell is doing look like Santa Fe trains- and seemed like something he might consider, given his recent production of the NP coach.

And yes, Kato has spoiled us with the Super Chief and El Cap.  And I wish they would spoil us further with a Big Dome.  And someone please also spoil us with an ATSF Budd diner....

And who knows....maybe we could talk Lowell into a 10-3-2.  After all, be just did a 12-4 Western/Blue sleeper, which was also a rare bird- so he must have been listening to the UP modelers out there.

[Sokramiketes]

Confession: I've been running Kato coaches and baggage cars from their original Budd sets since those were released many years ago, so I don't mean my comment as a complaint.  Just an observation.

It really doesn't bother me, other than a few of Lowell's fans (among my acquaintances) assume everything he does is "better than Kato" and more accurate, even though Lowell himself distinguishes between prototypical and "classic."  And the trains he is selling will be as close as the Kato Budd ATSF sets of 20-25 years ago (based on CB&Q prototypes).  Both of which were huge improvements over the multiple foobie ATSF schemes done by Con-Cor on their smoothside cars.  The 44 seat coach would be the car that would most help the 2 trains Lowell is doing look like Santa Fe trains- and seemed like something he might consider, given his recent production of the NP coach.

And yes, Kato has spoiled us with the Super Chief and El Cap.  And I wish they would spoil us further with a Big Dome.  And someone please also spoil us with an ATSF Budd diner....

And who knows....maybe we could talk Lowell into a 10-3-2.  After all, be just did a 12-4 Western/Blue sleeper, which was also a rare bird- so he must have been listening to the UP modelers out there.

Santa Fe is probably the second best paint scheme on the Kato "Corrugated" Budd sets. 

Baggage and RPO - Close to pre-war Budd purchases on the Santa Fe.  Can be used as-is or have the doors changed.  I used to update them to Santa Fe practice with full bash panels on either side of the doors until Kato tooled that car.
Coach - Good as-is, and good for secondary trains including San Francisco Chief and Grand Canyon in some years.
10-6 Sleeper - Good window arrangement, needs skirting modified either with truck cutouts or skirt removal.  Again, Kato did the modified car for us so you don't have to pursue this route anymore
Diner - I cut the skirts off one and still intend to fix the kitchen windows but haven't yet.  It's still close for the San Francisco Chief. 

Dome - No good for Santa Fe, but you need so many of these domes for other trains (CB&Q Twin Cities, Wabash Blue Bird) that it's OK to get an extra in the sets.
SlumberCoach - No good for Santa Fe. 

I don't think Lowell's cars are better than Kato.  But, he does get the big picture stuff correct.  Good window frames to blend in, close coupling, Outstanding paint and lettering in terms of colors used and fonts used.  In fact, the only cars I've had to modify are the UP cars.  And that's more because we have so many prototype UP cars from Kato that it's easier to match Lowell's fill in cars to the Kato colors than to repaint all the Kato stuff. 

[GhengisKong]

I wonder what Lowell's first locomotive will be? EMD E6? 

[thomasjmdavis]

Good window frames to blend in, close coupling, Outstanding paint and lettering in terms of colors used and fonts used.

No doubt about that.  Best in the business, from the few cars I've seen in real life.  The Wabash sleeper I have on order is listed as delivering this month, so I will soon have one of my own to examine close up.

[thomasjmdavis]

I wonder what Lowell's first locomotive will be? EMD E6? 

He has listings for SP&S GP9s and F3, a GN F unit, and a Reading T1- which I assume are all paint jobs on various manufacturers models.  Are you thinking he is going to market his own line of locomotives? Did I miss an announcement?

[Nato]

      Rio Grande Lightweight baggage cars had fluted lower sides, as did all their lightweight cars which were part of a C&O order, Walther's original cars included a fluted side baggage car which I have only seen in C&O and undecorated. The three dome coaches used on the Royal Gorge Train were build by Budd for C&O as observation coaches, they had low height profile Budd domes. Rio Grande simply added an extension on the round end and a diaphagram  for mid train use. The old first issue Con Cor California Zephyr dome observation painted in single stripe Rio Grande paint scheme looked a lot like these cars except for the dome shape, and could work as a stand  in. Nate Goodman. (Nato).

[Nato]

             If you can find the old Rowa / MRC C&O/Santa Fe  cars you can accurately model Rio Grande Coaches used on the Royal Gorge and Prospector and the sleeper matches those used on the Prospector. The Observation car (blunt ended) can be made to resemble the diner lounges used on the Prospector, by blanking the rear windows and adding a diaframe (spell check) for mid train use. These cars and some coaches later went to D&H and Con Cor later offered this paint scheme and several  others on these Rowa cars. The hardest cars to have on a Prospector would be the two baggage combine dorm cars, which would have to either be scratch built or made from a coach. Nate Goodman. (Nato).

[GhengisKong]

He has listings for SP&S GP9s and F3, a GN F unit, and a Reading T1- which I assume are all paint jobs on various manufacturers models.  Are you thinking he is going to market his own line of locomotives? Did I miss an announcement?

No announcement and I forgot about him using other manufacturers for some locos. I was being tongue-in-cheek on if he would go for his own in-house locomotive since he has been doing that with new passenger car tooling.

[nkalanaga]

Since he's doing the GN passenger trains, if he decided to do a locomotive, an SDP40/45 would be a logical choice.  He suggests using a Kato SD45 as a stand-in, so it would fit the trains perfectly.

In fact, with Atlas announcing a new SD45, an SDP40 shell to fit the chassis would be a natural conversion.

[Sokramiketes]

Coach - Good as-is, and good for secondary trains including San Francisco Chief and Grand Canyon in some years.

I had a good question regarding my "as-is" choice of words via PM.  Here's some more detail on this car as I think it's a 90% car, convertible to 95% with some window work.  I have it on display in ATSF consists as needed, as the closest thing.  Here's some examples:

Here's the car in question courtesy of Fred Klein:
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The prototype for this car is a pre-war CB&Q coach.  Pre-war and post-war are important indicators when talking Budd as they changed their construction in that timeframe.  It is most notable on the roof (seen in the main ribs) and the ends of the cars.  Note the 1937 vs 1941 examples below.

The closest car that Charlie Vlk picked out (working at Kato and choosing car numbers) of the Santa Fe possibilities is the 1937 coach. As it was pre-war, and had one window discrepancy (8 large vs ATSF 7 large windows).  Someday I will fill in the large window and carve in two smaller windows.  If a more apporpriate car doesn't come along.
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Fred Klein mentions that it is closest to the "1941 60-seat coach" even though numbered as the 1937 cars.  Here's the car in question, which is usually called a 52 seat coach (unless I'm missing a prototype car somewhere that is closer)
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For me, the post war appearance ruins this one as the closest match.  It's probably longer as well. 

@Cajonpassfan may have more to add from the ATSF side of things.

[thomasjmdavis]

You're right Mike, the 1946 cars (3153-66) are longer by about 4 feet.  There were also 14 cars (3137-3150) that were nearly identical to the postwar cars (and also longer than the 1937 cars) that were delivered in 1941 with 2 more (3151-52) in 1945.

My own take on the 1937 cars when compared to the CB&Q is that the ATSF cars have the vestibule at the opposite end (and 1 large window at one end would need to become 2 small ones on 1 side).  I was tempted to chop the vestibule off one and swap ends, but I figured the seams would be more obvious than the window differences.  The other difference would be the trucks.  I have a few gooseneck brass trucks but have never gotten around to swapping them out, since the Kato's roll better.

In any case, I've been running them for 20 years as ATSF 1937 chair cars, and to date, no one viewing has noticed the window differences.  Occasionally, someone notices that the cars are a bit shorter than most other cars, but accept the explanation that the 1937 cars were shorter than later cars. 

One other upside to the cars- because they are the correct length for the 1937 cars, they are also the right length for the early SF streamlined lounges and baggage lounges, so the M&R sides for those cars are a near perfect fit.