You think I'd know better - Trix 2-10-0 rebuild

[randgust]

Just so we keep our 'eye on the prize' here, here's the only survivor of the entire class, 4483, which is parked up at Hamburg, NY.   This was shot in September 2017 from the Buffalo,  Cattaraugus & Jamestown excursion runs on the Buffalo Southern.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRR%204483%202-10-0%209-2017.JPG

[Lemosteam]

You need the sand dome that I have,  it makes a huge difference with little damage to the shell.



https://photos.app.goo.gl/8YfZTZBsK7u6bSET6

[randgust]

Shapeways marketplace is just so terrible..... is that the "Bachmann" sand dome or something else?

I agree and will get a couple as soon as I can figure out what it is.

I'll have to do a full inventory here and see what else you've got I need, I ended up with a lot of your parts  on the D16.   I still have a couple water scoops. 

FYI I was very surprised how miserable it was to find a Elesco feedwater heater.    Got one but, wow, near miss.   And I'll also tip you off that Monroe  has no more GHQ L1 parts, I think I got all of them out of Marshall's collection.   One of the biggest discrepancies on the Trix models is at least compared to the GHQ cab, the Trix cab is a lot bigger and longer.   I suspect that was to hide the motor, also carried over from the K4, but if you look at the GHQ part you'll see there's just no comparison to the Trix, GHQ is way, way better.

[nickelplate759]

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/keystone_details

[randgust]

Yeah, I 'think' this is it just looking for a confirm:  https://www.shapeways.com/product/EWMCYNUWE/2pk-n-scale-bachmann-prr-k4-replacement-sand-dome?optionId=58671376&li=shops

[Lemosteam]

Yeah, I 'think' this is it just looking for a confirm:  https://www.shapeways.com/product/EWMCYNUWE/2pk-n-scale-bachmann-prr-k4-replacement-sand-dome?optionId=58671376&li=shops

Hi Randy,

just use my website- then you don't have to search for anything.  www.keystonedetails.com.  Also look at the photos link below the image. all of the detail parts I offer are in it and how to install them.

If you can spare one, mail one of the GHQ Elesco feedwater heaters to me and I will model it up in CAD- been meaning to do that for a while. 

Except for the corner seams, I agree the GHQ cab is much better looking than the Trix.

[randgust]

Domes ordered and the Elesco feedwater heater mailed.   That's a missing detail part that only you can probably fix, so I'll do my part here.

I got the new brass drawbar off of the Kato tender frame designed and fabricated which is a major step forward.   Wire in the tender to the plug and I get to start testing this thing.

[Lemosteam]

@randgust after some research, it turns out that the feedwater heater casting you mailed and I received is actually a Worthington, not an Elesco. See images here, and I can email you a Worthington brochure later.

Searching images here, it appears there were two different heaters in the images below.  I can design both I think,  On the Worthington, I will include the large pipe and housing running forward of the heater as a separate part that can be lengthened or shortened.

Worthington:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr4673s.jpg

Other (still investigating- it may be a PRR version of the Elesco):
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr4644sa.jpg

[randgust]

I'm the one that is mixing up manufacturers.    My Kalmbach plan set on the I-1 Dec shows and says "Worthington BL" (pages 58-59) and the GHQ parts M-4 box says "Worthington" 55-002.   Max's RMC 2005 article clearly shows that part, but just says "Feedwater Heater, RLW".   But it's the GHQ part.   I'm not sure about that big lead pipe (Max?) but that is the right heater from what I can identify.

Still should help though because that's just an excellent casting.   I'm waiting for the sand dome, have cut the new running boards, testing the mechanism with the tender now.

[mmagliaro]

This should help:

Going through the original text of the article, I found:
1.   Worthington BL Feedwater Heater (RLW part #GHQ 55-002/3-02)
2.   Worthington BL Feedwater Pipe (RLW part #GHQ 55-002/3-05)
This appears in the text before the photo where the part is just labeled "Feedwater Heater (RLW)" as you said.
Maybe you didn't see it in the text, or maybe that got edited out when they printed it.  I don't have the magazines handy at the moment to check.

Incidentally, only the Baldwin-built I1 had that heater on the side like that.  The ones built in Altoona did not.  (I wonder what they used, or maybe thay had no heater at all? )

Here is a photo of the LEFT side of #4483 up in Buffalo, NY.  This is the side nobody sees because it isn't easily visible by the way the engine is parked.  But a little bird flew around the engine and photographed it for me.   

[Lemosteam]

If you look at the two image links I supplied there are clearly two styles of heaters, one where the bottom portion is smaller, with the 45 degree rib and the worthington, which has a full housing at the bottom. The pipe and it’s housing in the front are the same.

There are lots of differences at the top as well.

Not sure which heater was more prevalent.

[mmagliaro]

Lemo,
Both in your photos are Worthington.  The first one, more like a full rectangle on the bottom, is the earlier type "B".  The other one,
which is also the type on my model, and on the #4483, with the chopped-off part of the rectangle on the bottom, is the later
type "BL".
And to complicate things further, Worthington made these in 4 different sizes to suite different sizes of locomotive.  I have no idea
what "size" was on the I1.  I did find that type "B" were around in 1922, just looking at some documents from Worthington.
And since the I1 were all built between 1916 and 1923, many would have had type "B" on there.  But the newer ones surely got put on there as the decades rolled along, if they needed to be replaced. 

So... which PRR I1 had a type "B" and which had "BL", in what years?
Like most things PRR... good luck.  All I know is that when I modeled mine, I used the #4483 in Buffalo for a lot of the details.

[randgust]

Finally got to start the real work of testing this thing, here's what I've learned:

1)  The Kato tender trucks certainly solved the pickup issues.   I could run this thing reliably just with the tender..   The new brass drawbar plus the detachable plug track just fine.
2)  It runs better in reverse than forward.  The #2 and #3 drivers have a noticeable eliptical movement to them; a borderline bind but only in forward.   There's too much vertical movement in the axles/gears.   I suspect that the pickup wipers (that I removed) prevented that so I put them back as a test.   Yep, that got rid of about 90% of it.   Modified them to wheel tread instead of flange edge.
3)  Put a lead slug in the front of the boiler and carved out a little of the plastic to slide the original weight up, that works.
4)  Put some test weights in the tender, and now it is all rock-solid on pickup and tractive effort is pretty good, not GHQ pewter boiler good,but good.    Overall performance is acceptable but not particularly outstanding.

But that Trix motor doesn't have the slow speed I want.   It runs nicely at medium-high but won't creep.   I've got an old Kato 5-pole that is a little wide but same dimensions otherwise that I think I'm going to put in, I've used these motors in old Roco GP's and also my RSD15's and they are just completely bulletproof, powerful and low-RPM.   These were the original Kato/Con-Cor PA1 motors, one of the best five-pole motors ever made if you can make them fit.  I had three old Roco/Atlas GP's that I'd repowered for a friend that I got back when he passed, the only thing worth keeping was the Kato motors, so this will be the second life for one of them.

That's what I mean about I'm not taking the detail thing flat out until I'm happy with the mechanism.   Right now, OK, but not great.   

[Lemosteam]

Lemo,
Both in your photos are Worthington.  The first one, more like a full rectangle on the bottom, is the earlier type "B".  The other one,
which is also the type on my model, and on the #4483, with the chopped-off part of the rectangle on the bottom, is the later
type "BL".
And to complicate things further, Worthington made these in 4 different sizes to suite different sizes of locomotive.  I have no idea
what "size" was on the I1.  I did find that type "B" were around in 1922, just looking at some documents from Worthington.
And since the I1 were all built between 1916 and 1923, many would have had type "B" on there.  But the newer ones surely got put on there as the decades rolled along, if they needed to be replaced. 

So... which PRR I1 had a type "B" and which had "BL", in what years?
Like most things PRR... good luck.  All I know is that when I modeled mine, I used the #4483 in Buffalo for a lot of the details.

Based on this info I will design both in CAD and make a kit for the modeler to choose which one to use.  The kit will likely cost that same with one or both so That's what I'll do.

[peteski]

But that Trix motor doesn't have the slow speed I want.   It runs nicely at medium-high but won't creep.   I've got an old Kato 5-pole that is a little wide but same dimensions otherwise that I think I'm going to put in, I've used these motors in old Roco GP's and also my RSD15's and they are just completely bulletproof, powerful and low-RPM.   These were the original Kato/Con-Cor PA1 motors, one of the best five-pole motors ever made if you can make them fit.  I had three old Roco/Atlas GP's that I'd repowered for a friend that I got back when he passed, the only thing worth keeping was the Kato motors, so this will be the second life for one of them.

Is the Kato motor from PA1s the larger than the contemporary Kato motor (as identified in this photo)?

I wonder how close are its dimensions  to the motors Life-Like used in their later releases of the E-units?  That motor is also a 5-pole skew-wound armature powerhouse!