You think I'd know better - Trix 2-10-0 rebuild

[nkalanaga]

They have 3D printers that can print metal parts, although I suspect that would be too expensive for a steam loco frame.  In a few years?

[dem34]

Doubt the cost of those things will go down, a lot of the cost is the tolerances and materials needed for the parts as well as the alloys for the print medium.

[nkalanaga]

No, I doubt that the printers will ever be affordable by the average modeler, but the cost of having a part printed should come down.  It should then be practical to send a design in and have it printed, just as one can do today with plastics.

[Lemosteam]

No, I doubt that the printers will ever be affordable by the average modeler, but the cost of having a part printed should come down.  It should then be practical to send a design in and have it printed, just as one can do today with plastics.

Shapeways already does this with many metals available, steel included, but the results are not as accurate, unless it is an investment cast "print".  The cost can be exhorbitant.

[nkalanaga]

Not surprising, with a new technology.  It should come down, and the quality improve, as has happened with most new technologies.

Of course, that isn't much help NOW!

[mike_lawyer]

Maybe someday my dream of creating a frame that would fit all of the Kato Mikado parts to make a 2-10-x mechanism will come to fruition!

[randgust]

OK, so now with Ed's contribution I have three of them.   The resin one has at least the worthington BL feedwater heater on it, but now I also scored Marshall Thompson's entire remaining stock of GHQ L1 parts including 2 cabs,piping, doghouses, etc.   Just no boiler.

And I finished converting a tender to 8x8 Kato end-axle caboose pickup.

But I also stumbled across Max M's 2005 RMC articles converting a GHQ L1 to an I-1, the kind of article nobody would publish now.  Damn, now I have to do it right.  he had it all laid out.  I could probably build a brass boiler myself with that.

And the article showed a GHQ worthington BL feedwater heater.   Where did that come from?    I started googling and found "Worthington Feedwater Heater 55-002' on Ebay, decided to pull the trigger, a little pricey.   What I got was an ENTIRE conversion kit for the Southern M4 with the Worthington, I didn't even know they ever did that, it's almost unlisted and definitely mislabelled.   So now another full box of useful steam stuff for my stash of unobtanium.

And I also turned all the flanges on one chassis, and removed all pickups from the front drivers, convinced that the 8x8 tender that worked flawlessly with my D16 can do the same to the I-1 trix chassis without that mess.  Did a static test with the original Trix motor, and I hate to even say this, but I was stunned.   Smooth and quiet.  I'm going to have to try this with the original motor before I resign myself to changing it out of reflex.   I've got the plastic boiler to line up but now with all this 'stuff' and a couple donater boilers I may just try to do a proper sized brass boiler and graft on the few things I need in plastic like the steam dome, etc. that I could pour solid with lead.   The chassis itself needs one major change, a set of cylinders that look right, and I have a Shapeways one from Lemosteam that is worth expirimenting with for the K4 set leftover.

Darn you Max.   Now I'm really into this with that excellent detailing article.   You originally got me going with the L1 kit and now this.

[mmagliaro]

...

Darn you Max.   Now I'm really into this with that excellent detailing article.   You originally got me going with the L1 kit and now this.

My purpose in writing those hard-core
"super-build" articles was to show the "model train world" that models like that are possible in N scale, and also to show modelers that a lot of it isn't "genius"; it is trial-and-error, figuring out new processes, and not giving up.  If other good model-makers (and you definitely are one) are somehow inspired to do their best work because of something I wrote, nothing could be more honorable (and humbling).   Thank you, sir.  Now get your a** back in there and make more detail parts!   

[Lemosteam]

If you stick with the Trix, and decide that the drivers are too small and you have spare Kato Mike Driver wheels, you can always do this:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MfsxnEnP81aXXTzS8

Keep in mind this was done on a drill press with a file, not a fancy lathe, which I think you have.

Yes this is an L1 with the last axle pocket removed for the Delta trailing truck, but the concept is sound and produced a great runner, with just enough space between the flanges.

If you can work on that, I have plans for a replacement front cylinder clip, a la my K4 cylinders, for the Trix 2-10-0 in the works and maybe it will be ready by the time you ar done with the axles...

[mike_lawyer]

Max's articles on the I1 build are amazing.  I built one years ago, and it worked great.  I am layout-building right now but want to start building some I1s for my fleet later this year.

The key part to the whole process is getting the 5th driver slot and cover plate aligned properly so that there is smooth driver rotation and the 5th driver stays fixed.  That takes a lot of filing and trial and error.  I have not found a bulletproof, repeatable way of doing this.

Mike

[randgust]

John, you overestimate both my workshop and talent.

On the D16, my attempts at driver transplant failed.   Everything wobbled, I don't have a precision drill press.  Had to ask for help.

Mark Graulty (narrowminded) did my D16 drivers, he's as precision a guy as I've ever met, but he's kinda dropped out of sight around here lately.

And I don' have any Kato mike drivers to scrap anyway.    Until I actually test run this thing with the existing motor I won't be convinced this is the right thing, but I think with the Trix drivers turned and all that painted and neolubed, it's not going to look that bad.   One thing I do have to admire is the ridiculous amount of lateral in that chassis.  With the motor off and the pickups off, I rolled it through a 9 3/4 curve with no binding at all.   That's a pretty solid design, typical Trix.   

And with those driver contacts off, guess what, it's now an isolated frame.   I may even go DCC on this one so I can run it on the main Ttrak loops, and wire it for bypass with all the gear in that tender and 8x8.

[Lemosteam]

John, you overestimate both my workshop and talent.

On the D16, my attempts at driver transplant failed.   Everything wobbled, I don't have a precision drill press.  Had to ask for help.

Mark Graulty (narrowminded) did my D16 drivers, he's as precision a guy as I've ever met, but he's kinda dropped out of sight around here lately.

And I don' have any Kato mike drivers to scrap anyway.    Until I actually test run this thing with the existing motor I won't be convinced this is the right thing, but I think with the Trix drivers turned and all that painted and neolubed, it's not going to look that bad.   One thing I do have to admire is the ridiculous amount of lateral in that chassis.  With the motor off and the pickups off, I rolled it through a 9 3/4 curve with no binding at all.   That's a pretty solid design, typical Trix.   

And with those driver contacts off, guess what, it's now an isolated frame.   I may even go DCC on this one so I can run it on the main Ttrak loops, and wire it for bypass with all the gear in that tender and 8x8.

After the D16, I underestimate you for nothing, LOL.

Regardless, you should note that the drivers are fully isolated from the frame as the wheel centers are plastic, pressed onto the gar shaft, so if you can come up with a phosphor bronze wire contact system for the drivers, you can still stay DCC and take advantage of all of those wheels. If you look at the original contacts they are separated down the center and so the design is already DCC ready, as opposed to the K4 design which uses the frame.

[randgust]

Well, mechanically, the wipers on the far flange edges create a couple problems.   They push the drivers down, and increase friction in the journals, increase current draw on the motor, and make low-torque smooth starting marginally more difficult.  They also tend to freeze the front axles from smooth lateral movement, and hold them off-center on tangent return.  So if i can make it work well without them, they stay off, but the tender 8x8 has to be perfect.   I was astounded the way that chassis felt with them off in the cradle, sliding the drivers around, adding friction and listening to the drive.   I put a spacer in the frame for testing to hold the cylinders up.   I may put nylon washers in to center the lateral in the lead, and possibly trailing, driver set, I've pull that stunt before it if crabs a bit.  there's a lot of slop everywhere.   Drawbar placement close to the rear driver reduces a lot of that issue.

I never thought the D16 would run that well with zero electronics in the locomotive itself except headlight wires.   So I'm brave.

[randgust]

OK, so while there's a lot of discussion on what might be the best chassis, have fun with that, because I've got 3 Trix ones now, so you dance with the one that brung ya.

And after having two major breakthroughs - one getting a pile of GHQ parts and the second finding Max's detailing article, we're going in.

And with THREE donor boilers (one resin and two Trix) any fear of ripping into a plastic shell is completely gone.   So, here's what I'm up to:

1)  The basis Trix chassis - note the flanges are turned, the front contacts are removed, the cylinders have been refiled to look less "German".



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1003.JPG



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1004.JPG

(Old-school for sure, but I'll bet that after paint and Neolube I'll be OK)

Now, the real fun:  I completely mutilated the plastic boiler to remove everything down to the firebox and shell and allow redetailling.  And the Trix cab got sawed off to be replaced by the GHQ castings of the L1.



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1001.JPG



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1002.JPG

[randgust]

Now the tender, cutting and splicing a Kato caboose frame to precisely fit the wheelbase on the Trix tender... (this is one of the biggest changes that will pay off)



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1005.JPG



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1006.JPG

OK, so this is as rough as it gets, but you can see where I'm going with this......



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1007.JPG

When I get the tender connected we'll start to test run this experiment and see if it's actually worth finishing.   I'm not saying this is preferable to a lot of other potential approaches, just an alternative to see what can be done with what I've already got here.    Getting a nice stash of GHQ parts will make the difference on this one.   And it's got to handle tight curves, that's the biggest advantage of the Trix chassis I can see, even if I don't keep that motor.   I've got other five-pole motors, but my first performance test  has already made me go 'wait a darn minute here'.