You think I'd know better - Trix 2-10-0 rebuild

[peteski]

Over on the DCC/electronics board I'm musing over putting sound it it, but considering my level of DCC sophistication it's probably beyond me so I'll just put a DZ126T in it for now, as I understand those with as many Climax DCC builds as I've done for customers.

Hardware-wise a N scale sound decoder only has 2 more wires to connect than a non-sound decoder: the pair of speaker wires. Speakers (and their enclosures are sometimes included with the decoder).  The additional features are all software and function based.  If you buy a preprogrammed sound decoder, there is not much you need to do to operate it.  Just run it like a non-sound decoder, except you now have many more functions you can use (with different sounds assigned to them). 

The more complicated stuff comes into play when you want to remap functions to your liking, or reprogram sounds (if you use a decoder which is capable of that).  Other than that, the sound decoder is no different than a non-sound decoder.

[randgust]

Agreed, but after looking at all the choices out there, recommendations, options, etc. myself it boils down to analysis paralysis.   I figured out I'll have all the wiring in the tender where it should be, it's all isolated and can do it sometime.   I was kinda hoping that given what I'm trying to do I'd have a solid recommendation but none have emerged.   As I don't use it at home, only on the T-trak modules, and have a Digitrax zephyr for testing I'm not in the 'set every possible CV through JMRI' guy here, unless somebody wants to program one for me.   But I didn't want to do detailing on this until I got the wiring issues solved and all moved into the tender.

[randgust]

I bet you thought I gave up on this thing.   It took a while for John to do the front end prints for the cylinder and air reservoirs, then I got really busy with work.    Finally caught up on kit orders, so I've managed to finish detailing the boiler and tender shell on this.   I wanted to get a bunch of photos before I started to paint it to show just how radical some of the changes really are..... I think I got the last great stash of GHQ parts from Bruce Monroe.  Now it's all up to John at Keystone Details.

On the locomotive the 'biggest fix' after John's parts were taking a full foot off the front of the smokebox right behind the front and regluing all of it; as it was it stuck out too far to use John's parts.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1016.JPG



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1018.JPG



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1019.JPG

OK, now for the tender.....

[randgust]

I realized when I took a good look at it that putting the GHQ doghouse on the tender was WAY too high... what was wrong?   Basically, nothing on PRR that fit normal clearances was over 15', and now I had it up to over 16'.   Hmmmm.   Checked the tender deck against the GHQ tender on the L1 kit, there's the problem   So saw a foot off the tender under the tender deck to bring it down and now the proportions look right.   And  here's the interior shot so you can see I've got the TCS 6-pin connector in there to bring everything into the tender for a decoder, and also drilled and cut out the coal pile as I 'think' I want to prep for both a speaker and a better looking coal load.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1017.JPG



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1021.JPG



So right now there's a removable styrene plate that fits in that hole so I can see in the tender to arrange all the 'stuff' that is coming.

But she runs just great.  Slow and quiet with that Kato motor in there, and the 8x8 end-axle pickup with those Kato caboose trucks.

I got a LOT of help by looking at Max's old RMC article here, he's my muse.  Now once I paint up the frame and running gear you'll see all that Trix chrome disappear.

[TVRR]

Beautiful job sir, deeply envious of your skills and courage.

[muktown128]

Looking good.  Once you finish this, BLI will probably announce their model. 

[randgust]

Looking good.  Once you finish this, BLI will probably announce their model.

Wouldn't bother me at all.   This is now an obnoxiously good pickup, heavy-duty drivetrain, and I have two more mechanisms for a lifetime parts supply so I can run this one hard.   This one is 'intended' to be a runner, so using that Trix chassis under it was the basis.

One of the things that bothers me about current-production steam is the level of unobtanium in the parts supply, you just about have to have two to ensure that you can keep one running as long as you'll want if it's actually a front-line locomotive and not a display queen.

[mike_lawyer]

So hoping BLI makes an I1 2-10-0 someday.  I keep checking their Facebook page for any hints on new PRR steam releases, but have seen nothing.

[mmagliaro]

Randy, this has come a LONG way, and it looks GREAT.   Pulling that nose back, and with all the correct tanks and other detail parts, I think the proportions look very good.  I am a little antsy about the rods and valve gear, but I think if you blacken them,
they will blend in with all the other nice details you've put on there.
Oh, and thanks for the nice things you said about me 

[randgust]

OK, well, if there was ever a locomotive class that was never, ever, ever 'clean', it was the PRR I1.   Every photo I see has them filthy, usually can't even read the tender or the locomotive number.   But at some point, they left a shop, and 'maybe' there was a builders photo in fresh paint.   So in that spirit, here's mine.... before weathering.   I use Badger brunswick green which is really, really dark... and there will be a grimy black wash over all of this, more or less like my L1 and D16, that worked really well.  But you can see the impact of painting and neolubing the chrome on the Trix chassis.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1023.JPG



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1024.JPG



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1025.JPG



link:  http://www.randgust.com/PRRI1026.JPG

And no, you will never see it that clean again.   And I'll probably put on another couple coats of Neolube. 

I did get the sound decoder and speaker for Christmas.  Well, this should be fun....

[wm3798]

Simply fantastic.
Lee

[randgust]

I had to do a little historic digging on the locomotive number, as PRR numbered stuff all over the map.   And there were multiple versions and eras, depending on the year, and multiple tender versions.

This was Decapod country, and the usual format for 'upriver' coal trains to Buffalo was one on the front and two pushers on the back.  But it was also common for a specific pool of locomotives to work out of a couple terminals for long periods - in this case, Buffalo to Oil City.   Looking at 2 books - Western NY & Pennsylvania by Pietrak, Triumph 7 PRR book, and online references, the 4558 kept showing up everyplace between those two areas on both the lake line and the Olean line, so 4558 it is.    The more I researched it it became obvious that a 'home shop' mentality for steam was a PRR practice; locomotives didn't really wander systemwide.  The shot I really liked was 4558 running south through Kinzua on the Salamanca branch on the point of a general merch train, just up the river from me, that spot is now under the Allegheny Reservoir.

This thing definitely has to be weathered within an inch of its life.   Triumph 7 has a great photo of an I1 from the engineers view that has a 'cinderfall' on the running boards about an inch thick, to the point where it would be a walking hazard.   Maybe they cleaned the passenger power, but sure not these.   That hood on the rear of the doghouse was not a sunshade.  And according to the PRRT&HS article I found, that odd 'pipe' between the doghouse and the tender slope sheet was a brace.  Wow.  How hard are you getting hit and slack if you need a brace on the doghouse....

Another great I1 book but not as local is the PRR Elmira Branch by Bill Caloroso - softcover - but like our area it was coal heavy moving to the coal dock at Sodus Point on Lake Ontario, so maybe 1/3 of the photos in the book are I1's, including some nice color shots.

[randgust]

The 'good news' is that after painting and neolubing, it's a pretty good looking locomotive.   And I got all my electrical gizmos for Christmas.

But the 'bad news' is that before I went into DCC, I want to make darn sure this is a fully reliable mechanism under DC, tested and done.   So it's been going through 'field trials' in train service up to full slip loads like never before.   And some interesting issues have arisen.

Running light, it's amazingly quiet, particularly at low speed.   But load it up with a heavy train, and three distinct issues emerge that aren't getting any better.  One, simply because of the 5 drive axles and four additional spur gears in the frame, is a distinct growl, but only in forward.   It's completely quiet in reverse....   Second is a distinct 'hop' that I 'thought' was an out-of-round driver on the main driver, but wasn't too concerned because it doesn't actually touch the rails most of the time.   But finger testing each wheel under load again I can feel a 'click' one per revolution, and that leads to a rythmic sound only under full load, just sound, not hesitation.    Third is a known issue on going through curves that you MUST keep all lateral movement free of those locomotive pickups or it binds right up.  That's the easiest of the 3 to tweak.

I have two more mechanisms and was stunned to test the other two and they had the same exact 'hop' on the center driver once per revolution.  And with the motor off I think I found it.   The drive rod for axles 1,2, and 3 is one stamped piece, and axles 3 and 4 is one piece.   The lead wheel touches, the second and third are slightly elevated.  So there is an EXTREMELY mild bend in the axle alignment that is magnified out on the rods and pins.   With the rods at the top of the wheel, all three mechanisms are dead-tight on the rods.  I'm all but sure that's where the 'hop' is coming from, along with the noise.  It's a very mild bind that seems common to all 3.

As the drivers are all gear driven the rods are only for effect, and they LOOK plenty loose.  But as an expiriment I'm pulling the PINS out of axle #2 to see if my suspicions are correct that it causes the bind/lift visible on axle 3.   If this is true it's a design flaw on the Trix mechanism.  Either leave the pin out, or enlarge the #2 hole should, in theory, fix it.

As another comment, pulling the actual wheelsets out is only advised if you have nothing to do in your life for about 3 hours where you laboriously reset every individual axle and intermediate spur one at a time, tooth by tooth.  Nope, don't do that again.

[wm3798]

The last bit is how I murdered my first decapod back in the early 80s.  I had to break it to see why it wasn't coming apart.

I mangled the wipers and never could get it back together again.

I'm much more cautious with the one I have now, leaving the heavy mechanical work to those with more patience than I...
Lee

[randgust]

Well that didn't make any difference.   The really annoying part is that it doesn't make any gear racket until it's under load, and it doesn't make any in reverse even in full slip - it's dead silent.  But near full slip in forward, it's noisy.   I think the 'slop' in the spur gears and axles is the problem.  Because it's so quiet in one direction, it's not just because there's all those gears.   Something is getting loose enough to buzz.   I'm not sure I'd care that much if I wasn't attempting to put sound in this one.  It runs just fine otherwise and slow speed/torque is excellent.

I did find out by more bench testing that the 'bind' came from #2 and #4 axle pins/rods not having enough lateral movement.   I could push those around with tweezers while upside down in the cradle under power and watch it bind up.   Minor rebending of the rod  fixed that.

I have another chassis to expriment with to see if I can shim the bearings at the axles with something, and if that works.  But you have to preserve the lateral movement or it binds up in curves.  Remember on the I-1's the CENTER THREE AXLES were blind drivers, which stunned me.   Here in N scale with sharp curves we're jamming it around 9 3/4" by design attempt with everything flanged.   On my Hallmark 4-8-4 I blinded the two center axle drivers and took out all the lateral movement with washers and it handles 11" curves without arguement.   Just sayin'.

It's a lot easier to get radical with this when I have two more chassis, so if I really mess up....