Inventive Models Couplers as Sergent Replacements

[ednadolski]

I'm happy to report that per this post that even tho the original Sergent Couplers are no longer being produced, the Sergent-like couplers produced by Eric Xing at Inventive Models are indeed available in the real world.   My shipment arrived today and upon initial inspection these do appear quite nice:



They also have the advantage of being pre-assembled.  The pic shows the longer/longest shank versions that I ordered, with an original standard-shank Sergent Type E and (for grins) a Kadee coupler for comparison.  Even with the overseas shipping it took less than two weeks for these to arrive (please look and learn, NWSL).

For convenience, here is a re-posting of the Ebay links, along with links to the die-cast versions that are expected to become available in the near future:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144707626419

https://jlinnovative.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=7&fbclid=IwAR01xUbJP3yTPF5KSEZFbzvoBslt6Q2mj3E6V-TW9Se3F6aUF6qjaiL31cI

https://www.facebook.com/JLInnovative

https://groups.io/g/SergentEngineering/message/2705


I am really looking forward to trying these out.

Cheers,
Ed

[flight2000]

Ed,

What Kadee variant is that, #5 or #58?  Not sure I'm up to replacing over 700 pieces of rolling stock and engines with new couplers. 

Do the kits come with the centering springs for the coupler boxes?

Hope he does well as we definitely need new manufacturers across all the scales. 

Cheers,
Brian

[peteski]

While the blingy gold (brass) is very nice, since these are supposed to be most prototypical H0 couplers, looks like you'll have to dunk them in some blackening solution to make them look more like real couplers. 

[ednadolski]

@flight2000  I think that's a #58, and yes they do have the centering springs.   Yep, 700 pieces sounds like a lot, so one would have to do it incrementally.   It's really a personal choice of how much you like the newer ones, wrt appearance, operation, reliability, etc.

@peteski the upcoming die-cast versions are going to be factory-blackened.  IIUC they will initially be unassembled but JI is also working to deliver an assembled+blackened version.  TBD if anyone will be offering die-cast variants such as the longer shanks, top/bottom shelf, and/or Type F.

For this batch I might try Neolube, or off to the paint booth.

Ed

[peteski]

@peteski the upcoming die-cast versions are going to be factory-blackened.  IIUC they will initially be unassembled but JI is also working to deliver an assembled+blackened version.  TBD if anyone will be offering die-cast variants such as the longer shanks, top/bottom shelf, and/or Type F.

For this batch I might try Neolube, or off to the paint booth.

Ed

I was half-joking as I'm sure you wouldn't use them in their bright brass finish.
I would avoid using paint. It might get into the delicate moving parts and prevent smooth operation.  Chemical blackening would be best, as it doesn't have any appreciable thickness. Neolube will likely work, but the finish can be easily rubbed off and graphite sheen doesn't much look like rust.  I would think that a chemical blackener like A-West Blacken-It, Micro Engineering Rail weathering solution, or one of the Jax Chemicals blackeners would work quite well.

[Maletrain]

HOw about a "browning" solution instead of "blacking"?  See https://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Gunguard-Brass-and-Bronze-Browning-Solution-116.html

[peteski]

HOw about a "browning" solution instead of "blacking"?  See https://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Gunguard-Brass-and-Bronze-Browning-Solution-116.html

Sure, that should work well.  All the blackening solutions I have used aren't true black either - they either dark brown or dark gray.  Micro Enginnering stuff is basically for producing weathered rail (which is weathered rusty color).

[Ted Thorson]

HOw about a "browning" solution instead of "blacking"?  See https://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Gunguard-Brass-and-Bronze-Browning-Solution-116.html

The linked page says that the solution is not available outside the mainland UK.  Have you been able to get it in the States?

[peteski]

The linked page says that the solution is not available outside the mainland UK.  Have you been able to get it in the States?

Ted, as I mentioned earlier Jax (In USA) has a wide range of chemical solutions for coloring brass and other metals.
Here are the browns:  https://jaxchemical.com/product-category/darkeners/
You can purchase directly from Jax.

[Ted Thorson]

Ah! Excellent, thank you peteski.

[Hawghead]

Just received my "Sharon" style couplers from Eric and they are fantastic.  No Kaydee slinky action, no having to use a skewer to try and force the couplers open, just hold the magnet over them and pull away from the car.  You don't have to hold the car you are trying to couple to in place when making a joint like you often have to with Kaydees.  In my opinion just a far and away much better coupler than Kaydees although considerably more expensive but that should improve when he comes out with a diecast version.  While Ed says they come with a centering spring, I'm not sure that is entirely accurate.  Mine have a slot cut into the shank that opens up into the hole for the mounting pin.  This allows you to install a spring (included with the couplers) that puts friction between the mounting post and the coupler helping to keep the coupler from flopping back and forth in the pocket, but doesn't "center" it.  You have to manually center the coupler just like you would have to do in reality, but this makes it much easier to make a joint if the car is sitting on a curve.

Scott

[peteski]

Just received my "Sharon" style couplers from Eric and they are fantastic.  No Kaydee slinky action, no having to use a skewer to try and force the couplers open, just hold the magnet over them and pull away from the car. 

Slinky in H0 scale?
I have never heard of Kadee H0 couplers being slinky.  AFAIK, their design does not have the "slinky" spring in the coupler shank. The shanks pivot on a solid post inside the coupler box. Similar to how the N scale McHenry couplers work.

[ednadolski]

Slinky in H0 scale?

Yes, and in any scale, really.... Even O, if you find the right combination of speed/drag/friction.  It's less about scale/mass and more about how free-rolling the wheels are, where the minute differences in friction come into play.  Springy couplers will of course make it more apparent even when the wheels are less free-rolling (they oscillate by exchanging potential and kinetic energy in a low-loss system, kinda like under-dampened shock absorbers on a car... but @GaryHinshaw could explain it way better than I do).

https://pressbooks.online.ucf.edu/phy2048tjb/chapter/15-5-damped-oscillations/

Most folks won't notice it because they start/run the trains too quickly, but if your locos are capable you can try doing a very long, slow acceleration from a stop to a few scale mph (like when trying to start a really long, heavy train), or perhaps a long, slow braking on a down grade with varying curvature, with slack running in and out.

Ed

[peteski]

Wow!  I had no idea that the there was visible slink in the spring-less shank couplers.

Since the Sergent (or the new version) couplers seem to use similar same shank pivot design like Kadee, where is the slinking reduced? Do they couple tighter than lets say Kadee couplers, so there is less play in the coupling?

[ednadolski]

I had no idea that the there was visible slink in the spring-less shank couplers.

It doesn't really come from the couplers tho, it's all the small frictional forces in the whole system adding up (in the individual axles, wheels against the rail flanges, movement within the couplers/pockets, etc.).  Springy couplers of course will exaggerate the effect, since they alternately gather and release energy, much like capacitors or inductors in a reactive circuit will respond to a unit step input (and thus where tehy resonate you can build an oscillator).  Think of springy couplers as kind of acting like a bigger capacitors.

(IIRC the equations are pretty much the same.)

Do they couple tighter than lets say Kadee couplers, so there is less play in the coupling?

I would say the IVMs are basically the same as the Sergents, with Kadees being rather more loose by comparison.

Ed