Author Topic: The GP40-2W's are in....  (Read 9192 times)

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Philip H

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2022, 10:07:01 AM »
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KCS has started repainting theirs in the Belle scheme . . .
Philip H.
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Baton Rouge Southern RR - Mount Rainier Division.


kscessandriver

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2022, 10:59:20 AM »
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KCS has started repainting theirs in the Belle scheme . . .

KCS doesn't have GP40-2W's, they have GP40-2LW's. Very similar models, but they are different because of the frame.

Philip H

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2022, 11:22:28 AM »
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KCS doesn't have GP40-2W's, they have GP40-2LW's. Very similar models, but they are different because of the frame.

And we're gonna get that frame difference in production in N scale when exactly?  Yeash.   Great missing the forest for the trees man
Philip H.
Chief Everything Officer
Baton Rouge Southern RR - Mount Rainier Division.


kscessandriver

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2022, 01:17:13 PM »
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And we're gonna get that frame difference in production in N scale when exactly?  Yeash.   Great missing the forest for the trees man

Either you care about the prototype or you don't. I don't care either way, I was just pointing out that they're not GP40-2Ws.

simsuper80

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2022, 02:42:17 PM »
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Either you care about the prototype or you don't. I don't care either way, I was just pointing out that they're not GP40-2Ws.

What is the main difference

Scottl

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2022, 02:45:08 PM »
+2
I've looked at these for decades and never realized the frame difference. 

To an expert it is something that might be an issue.  But to get this unique prototype on the market and looking this good, I'm OK with the frame.  Atlas got the look of the cab windows right to my eye (compare with IMRC SD40-2W, which looks wrong IMO) so this is a major win for this CN modeler.

peteski

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2022, 03:19:52 PM »
+1
What is the main difference

It was mentioned about it much earlier in this thread in this post.  Not sure how accurate it is, but nobody seemed to disagree.
. . . 42 . . .

dandopinski

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2022, 04:48:14 PM »
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Only after the cabooses were gone did CN go to DB in a big way.

tehachapifan

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2022, 06:33:15 PM »
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CN had something near 400 GP9's, all equipped with DB for example as were other first generation units. They found that the cost of maintaining DB was not worth the benefit as their route through the Rockies, though not gradeless, was built in the early 1900's and to a pretty high standard. Not to mention it traversed through the easiest pass in the Canadian West, the Yellowhead Pass. The sacrifice was routing the mainline much further north than CP, passing through Edmonton... which put them on a trajectory through an arguably better grain growing area than CP's arid route to the south. But I digress. CN's toughest mainline grade was actually in Ontario along on the Hamilton - Fort Erie main as it paralleled the Welland Canal. Which was bypassed in the 70's as part of a rebuild of the canal. In time DB was disconnected from all of their GP9's and likely every other first generation unit so equipped.

After sampling some early DB equipped second generation units, notably a pair of GP35, all 16 GP40, their first eight SD40's (5000-5007), and first two C630M's (2000-2001), they began to order DB only on select locomotives that we're to be assigned to heavy trains out west. The balance of their 241 SD40's saw a smattering of units with DB, largely 5100 series (5112 to 5131? or thereabouts, no Trackside Guide handy to look up), so something like 28 had DB. Pretty sure all of these units except the SD40's has DB removed (I'm not certain of GP35DB being deactivated, but it's highly likely). The next fleets CN bought were 111 GP38-2/-2W and 80 M420, the 233 GP40-2L and 35 GP40-2W. All lacked DB. With the SD40-2W deliveries CN started ordering select units with DB... can't recall the exact number but I think less than half of the 123 units were so equipped. The 20 HR-616 and 10 HR-412 were not equipped with DB (I'm fairly certain of this but not 100%). Finally, with the arrival of the SD50F's in the mid 80's CN returned to ordering DB on all new power, and that hasn't changed to this day. And all SD40's that went through rebuild in the 90's (CN 6000-6028, GCFX 6030-6079, split lease KCS unit's in the KCS 6600 series iirc) had DB added.

But no GP40-2L or GP40-2W ever operated as a CN unit with DB... only the units KCS got has them added.

Thanks for the info!

lock4244

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2022, 01:00:02 AM »
+1
So from what I can tell, the "L" designation is about them being a lighter frame, which allowed them to use a 3000 gallon fuel tank. Because of that, they rode 2 inches higher, so in N scale I'm not really sure you'd be able to see that. Tank size yes, but the ride height, I doubt.

Source for info https://www.canadianrailwayobservations.com/PDF/CRO_gp40.pdf

So this is closer than my 'closer to 5"' comment. According to CN's diesel data book from 1974, the CN GP40-2L is 15' 7-1/16" in height, GO Transit GP40-2W #9808-9814 as time of books publishing (CN's GP40-2W 9633-9667 weren't delivered yet) which are most likely identical in height to the CN units, are 15' 4-7/16" in height. So 2-1/2" taller, which is noticeable when 1:1 scale are coupled together, but likely not so much in N scale.

The GP40-2W has a 3000 Imp Gal fuel tank, whereas the GO Transit GP40-2W has a 2160 Imp Gal tank. The drawing indicates a short tank on the GP40-2L but photos say otherwise. For N scale purposes if one we're to put a bigger tank on the -2L it'd be good enough for most.

CN Diesel Data Book http://www.cwrailway.ca/cnrha.ca/sites/default/files/databook-1974-12.pdf

The Diesel Data Book lists units equipped with DB and states if disconnected. Seems all equipped RS-18's are disconnected, yet the DWP RS-11 are active. As well, the two GP35's have disconnected noted for DB and photos indicate they fan was removed from top of blister, but the blister was left in place. A few GP9, CN 4147-4156, 4300-4312, 4340-4353, 4405-4414, CV 4442-4450, 4498-4501, 4528-4532, CV 4547-4551, GTW 4552-4557, CV 4558-4559, 4597-4601 DB still show as active.
SD40's 5000-5007, 5111-5132 show as DB equipped - interesting that in 1972 CN 5132 lacks DB equipment per photo but 1974 DD Books shows as DB equipped and 1993 photo shows it as equipped with DB blister and fans.

Yes I find this all very fascinating  :D
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 01:21:10 AM by lock4244 »

lock4244

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2022, 01:24:09 AM »
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1972 and 1993...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 01:26:02 AM by lock4244 »

dandopinski

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2022, 11:39:49 AM »
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The GP40-2Ls were given the large fuel tanks so they could consist with the SD40s and the big MLWs and not run out of fuel in the long distance runs. Halifax to Mtl or TO, Mtl or TO to Wpg, Wpg to Edm and Edm to Van. The MLWs never ran west of Winnipeg however.

lock4244

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2022, 05:08:55 PM »
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The GP40-2Ls were given the large fuel tanks so they could consist with the SD40s and the big MLWs and not run out of fuel in the long distance runs. Halifax to Mtl or TO, Mtl or TO to Wpg, Wpg to Edm and Edm to Van. The MLWs never ran west of Winnipeg however.

You could argue they rarely made it to Winnipeg.

It's amusing now that they have units with 4-5000 gallon tanks that they give just enough fuel to limp to the next terminal on fumes.

lock4244

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2022, 05:58:54 PM »
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Exactly. I'm still in the tinkering in design phase of my "layout", and I think I'm going to do a G&W themed layout, so getting any power is good.

Even predecessor units from just about anything GW has taken over within a few years from your modeled era would be fair game I'd think.

dandopinski

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Re: The GP40-2W's are in....
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2022, 11:54:20 PM »
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Yes, as the Ms got older they kept them strictly down east. Is CN still running out of fuel? I thought trip opti-mizer would have cured that.