Kato BigBoy pic - large screen cap for detail

[woodone]

Well the Big Boy showed up here Saturday.
Got it unpacked but not out of its card board box yet. Sort of wish they would change that!
I have a Athearn Challenger torn apart doing a up date with a SoundTraxx Tsunami2 .
The worst thing about this up date was the headlight. The old light was a bulb, changed that to a LED.
Getting the old bulb out was no fun, I think they glued it in . Had to mill, out the wires and the glass bulb.
Want to get the Athearn Challenger back in one piece before I start working on the Big Boy.
First look at the Big Boy was looking for wires between the loco & tender.
I only see two brass wires in the draw bar.
Off to test run on DC.
Want to make sure there are no problems before I start the DCC sound install.
Will be back

[CBQ Fan]

I am sure enjoying mine!  I just keep running it!

[woodone]

Well a test run has been made. The Big Boy runs so quite that I lost track of it several times on the layout.
Could not hear it running.
Now the fun part-getting inside to see how to convert to DCC with sound. The tender- no -problem it is just a large empty box.
The loco has has Peteski would say more pieces that a 1000 piece puzzle .
I got most of it done but I am hung up with the front engine assemble . I could not get the center exhaust pipe to release from the boiler.
You have any ideas Peteski?

[woodone]

I have found that I do not need to remove the front engine to do the DCC conversion.
There are two wires that come from the motor, 1 red & 1 black.
These are soldered to a small phosphors bronze strips that are pressed into the two halves of the frames.
The frame halves are powered up via the drivers.
So I have unsoldered the motor wires from the strips.
Soldered two wires to the strips for rail power, I spliced a wire to each of the motor wires ( 1 red & 1 black).
These wires will attach to the rear engine strips making the front engine & rear engine wired in parallel.
I will attach wires from the rear engine and run them through the draw bar into the tender.
I have yet to figure how to wire the head light.

[peteski]

Fun, isn't it? 
The center pipe is just snap fit on the bottom end. I was also very worried when I got to that part of the disassembly.

I have some ideas about the front health (since I have the loco totally apart).  It will involve dual-diode component soldered onto the modified light board (for "blue" voltage), and only single (negative) wire to run back to the tender.

You did isolate the motor wires from each engine assembly, correct? The motor wires are stiff - I'm going to snip the off close to the motor and replace them with more flexible thinner insulation wires (likely ESU decoder wires).

Kato did mold channels on the top of the boiler frame for routing wires (because there is no clearance between the shell and the frame. That's where I'll route the motor and headlight wires.  I will also install a small custom-made PC board which will be a junction between the wires in the loco and the harness leading to the tender.

[woodone]

Well, I did not tear mine apart has much has you have. There are enough pieces already in little storage boxes.
I have the motors isolated (unsoldered them from the frame strips)
Might have dig into it farther to figure the headlight out.
I too am using ESU #36 wire about the smallest i could find.
On the headlight, are not the two rods attached to the top of the shell the H/L power? they are powered by the pivot point on the rear engine at the top.
Think I will have it running this afternoon.

[peteski]

The headlight PC board is plugged into the end of the front engine's split frame.  Very little clearance all around it.



I'm really surprised that in this day and age Kato did not design this model a but more DCC friendly.  But then again, it seems that Japanese modelers are not as into DCC as modeler's elsewhere.  Kato Japan still doesn't sell models with factory installed decoders.  All the installs are done after the fact.  Some models are DCC ready for those unusual decoders which plug into the model using proprietare design contacts.

As advanced as their shell and mechanisms designs are, they are way behind on command control technology.

[Jbub]

The headlight PC board is plugged into the end of the front engine's split frame.  Very little clearance all around it.



I'm really surprised that in this day and age Kato did not design this model a but more DCC friendly.  But then again, it seems that Japanese modelers are not as into DCC as modeler's elsewhere.  Kato Japan still doesn't sell models with factory installed decoders.  All the installs are done after the fact.  Some models are DCC ready for those unusual decoders which plug into the model using proprietare design contacts.

As advanced as their shell and mechanisms designs are, they are way behind on command control technology.

So I'm trying to figure out how all this works before I tear apart the front porch to get to the light board. Does the screw that's accessed above the pilot truck go into the mounting hole between the lightboard legs? If that screw is removed, does the entire steam cylinder assembly come off? Also the interesting thing about the lack of DCC friendliness of the loco is, this is the first, from the factory, with DCC sound installed. No Kobo, no 3rd party installation except for those who do their own and sell them. This is from Kato USA
https://www.youtube.com/live/bp_k6ZEhJNE?feature=share&t=949 The discussion about it starts right after where the video starts from the link.

[peteski]

Regardless of what the Kato USA rep states, even if done by Kato Japan workers, to me that is not a what I would consider a "true" factory install. Maybe the DCC units will have different (factory made) PC board for sound and maybe another additional PC board elsewhere (in addition to the actual decoder).  Plus lots of loose wires. I just don't see any other way to tackle this install.  Like I mentioned, Kato made some minimal allowances for DCC-ing the model, but the install will likely still be quite messy (and difficult to do any maintenance on it).  I hope they prove me wrong (but I won't  buy another loco with DCC/Sound installed just to see how they did it). Hopefully someone who did buy one of those units will show some internal details of the install.

The screw hole in the above photo is for a screw that holds the entire pilot (its "spine").



The pilot truck has to be removed first.  Pop the wheelsets out, then rotate the truck's frame 90 degrees. It will then come out its pivot.
The pivot piece (shown on the bottom of the photo is snapped into the pilot's spine. It has to be pried out.  Once it is out, the screw can be removed and the pilot can then be tilted up (at the front) and pulled forward to remove it. The light board will stay inserted in the frame,
Of course the cylinders will have to be removed before removing the pilot assy. 

[woodone]

Looking at those two photos of the light board it looks like the board is touching both frame halves?
Would not this cause a short?
I was going to more work on it today, but Doctors appointments got in the way.
Tomorow will be another day.
Any one figure out what the wire rods do that are in the shell at the very top?
They make power contact with the two frame halves via the cone shaped part on the rear engine Asy.

[peteski]

Looking at those two photos of the light board it looks like the board is touching both frame halves?
Would not this cause a short?
I was going to more work on it today, but Doctors appointments got in the way.
Tomorow will be another day.
Any one figure out what the wire rods do that are in the shell at the very top?
They make power contact with the two frame halves via the cone shaped part on the rear engine Asy.

I thought the same but after close examination I found out that there is very small gap over the PC board in that area, so there is no short.  Very, very weird design.

Not sure what you mean by rods.  Each engine's chassis has a plastic pivot post on top. On each side of the post are short formed metal rods.  Is that what you are describing?  Those rods are to electrically connect the  engine's right and left frame halves to  the boiler chassis halves (through springy leaves in the chassis.  That is how all the drivers supply power to the entire model.  Electrically each engine can run interdependently if placed separately on the track (since the motor is also connected to the engine's frame halves). But when the engines are installed in the boiler frame, it all gets connected electrically.  That's how the drawbar will receive power from all  8 drivers (even thought it only connects to the rear engine). itis a quite unconventional design. Leave it to Kato.

[nightmare0331]

I have one of these pigs here.

I'll eventually figure out how to install ESU in it and already have some rough ideas.  Just slammed with other projects first.  I remember looking at the front light PCB on the 3d rendering thinking 'well that's going to be fun'...I am actually sort of curious how they're going to install either basic dcc or soundtraxx in these.  I would almost bet money there will be no provision to control the forward headlight via dcc ala EM13 decoder like they did with the GS4.  (and later their 'Kobo' 58731 installs after I left.  That was a travesty they charged a premium price for the GS4's with LokSound yet didn't wire in independant headlight control.)

I spent years trying to convince Hiroshi that they needed to make models more DCC and sound friendly and in one of the early meetings over this thing long before it was ever announced I brought up my concerns over not being DCC friendly.

In retrospect, was truly a bizaare company to work for.  Lots of circular logic and self licking ice cream cones at play all while ignoring useful input and feedback both from both staff and customers that didn't support whatever the company view was.

As Charlie Vlk used to say about Kato...snatching defeat away from the jaws of victory. 

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[peteski]

I have one of these pigs here.

I'll eventually figure out how to install ESU in it and already have some rough ideas.  Just slammed with other projects first.  I remember looking at the front light PCB on the 3d rendering thinking 'well that's going to be fun'...I am actually sort of curious how they're going to install either basic dcc or soundtraxx in these.  I would almost bet money there will be no provision to control the forward headlight via dcc ala EM13 decoder like they did with the GS4.  (and later their 'Kobo' 58731 installs after I left.  That was a travesty they charged a premium price for the GS4's with LokSound yet didn't wire in independant headlight control.)

I spent years trying to convince Hiroshi that they needed to make models more DCC and sound friendly and in one of the early meetings over this thing long before it was ever announced I brought up my concerns over not being DCC friendly.

In retrospect, was truly a bizaare company to work for.  Lots of circular logic and self licking ice cream cones at play all while ignoring useful input and feedback both from both staff and customers that didn't support whatever the company view was.

As Charlie Vlk used to say about Kato...snatching defeat away from the jaws of victory. 

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

Yes, this is a weird one for sure.  To be honest, this entire dual motro design makes no sense to me, but whatever.

I also had to scratch my head on their Charger design: They made room for the speaker in the fuel tank, even molded open grille in the tank, but made no provisions (like channels or grooves) for running the speaker wires to the top of the chassis.  The light conduits are also sort of designed to have the ditch lights separately illuminated separate from the headlight (if a plug-n-play decoder board had 3 LEDs on the front end). Makes no sense. Japanese sure have different culture - some good, and some weird, compared to the rest of the world.

[nightmare0331]

Yes, this is a weird one for sure.  To be honest, this entire dual motro design makes no sense to me, but whatever.

I also had to scratch my head on their Charger design: They made room for the speaker in the fuel tank, even molded open grille in the tank, but made no provisions (like channels or grooves) for running the speaker wires to the top of the chassis.  The light conduits are also sort of designed to have the ditch lights separately illuminated separate from the headlight (if a plug-n-play decoder board had 3 LEDs on the front end). Makes no sense. Japanese sure have different culture - some good, and some weird, compared to the rest of the world.

Oddly enough, the push for a speaker housings on the N scale Charger was because they were paying me lots as a contractor to machine frames and install ESU for Kobo equipped units so that was designed in on new models as a time saving measure.  Of course, I left for greener pastures before that model came out.  That would have saved me loads of time.

You can actually run speaker wires up between the motor and front flywheel.  I've done lots of them that way and it fits like a charm.  As for the nesting of light pipes, on the bright side, it makes it simple to clip and heat shrink wired 0402 SMLED's to the ends for alternating ditchlights and red marker lights.

Anywhoo....enjoy!

Kelley.

[TW877]

I also had to scratch my head on their Charger design: They made room for the speaker in the fuel tank, even molded open grille in the tank, but made no provisions (like channels or grooves) for running the speaker wires to the top of the chassis.  The light conduits are also sort of designed to have the ditch lights separately illuminated separate from the headlight (if a plug-n-play decoder board had 3 LEDs on the front end). Makes no sense. Japanese sure have different culture - some good, and some weird, compared to the rest of the world.

In fact there seems to be a slot on either side of the frame for routing speaker wires - just forward of the radiator details. Not sure if they were designed with that in mind though...
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Now back to the Big Boy... Still holding back on ordering one as to the (complete) lack of DCC friendliness.