Kato BigBoy pic - large screen cap for detail

[robert3985]

It may be the photo, but as they say in the South, ''There's just something not right about that (Big) Boy".   
The rods and wheels look like some Del Prado / Americon static model and the whole thing lacks "presence".  The BLI and Athearn look right.   
It is a Kato Japan project....for the brand-loyal Japanese that only want a Kato.  When I was still at Kato USA none of the staff thought it was a winning project and it has suppressed new Kato North American projects for over 15 years....as we all warned.
Charlie Vlk

I can't see the running gear all that well in the photo, but...the smokebox isn't well attached to the boiler, the cab looks like it's tilted forward, the tender looks like it's center axis is off center and the pilot looks wonky.  From photos I acquired a long time ago of one of their pilot models (sorry...I am sworn not to publish them) detailing overall looks pretty much right on for a modernized, oil-fired 4014 in excursion service, with the typical monkey-motion model articulation that allows running on Unitrack for that product's devotees.  Some items that are cast-on details on the Athearn model have been made separate, and/or much more distinct on the Kato model. 

I'm not sure what the purpose was to publish a bad photo of a badly assembled model as I am 100% positive that Kato completed the "pilot model" phase nearly a year ago and has fully assembled, fully painted and ready-to-go models right now. 

They're probably saving those good photos for next weekend's official introduction at Trainfest.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Cajonpassfan]

I have no idea how many Big Boys the market will bear, but right now I've got nine Athearn Big Boys....and I want four more...and I'll be waiting with 'bated breath to see the BLI models with hopes they're better than the Athearn models...which I am not dissatisfied with at all, especially after I shorten the tender drawbar.

Cheerio!!
Bob Gilmore

Bob, not to hijack the thread, just a question: what do you do to the Challenger tenders to backdate them? Is there a thread somewhere?
Thanks, Otto

[jdcolombo]

The market will bear a LOT of Big Boys, because it is an iconic engine that nearly everyone has seen in photos, videos, or now in person.  I have an Athearn model, because . . . well, because.  Great draw at Ntrak shows.  And if selling them makes money for manufacturers that they then plow into other useful items (like a 2-10-4 or a C&O Allegheny, or heaven forbid, FM H10-44 and H12-44 switchers), fine with me.  I won't be participating in the next few Big Boy rounds, because they weren't exactly plentiful on the NKP , but I'm very curious about whether two motors will be used, and if so, how DCC and DCC/Sound will be implemented.  Got to believe there will be a sound option, and that it probably will come from ESU.  Will two decoders really be necessary?  Or just one, wired to the motors in parallel (?) with the articulated sound (out-of-sync option included)?  Kato's engineering is always fascinating, even when it is too complicated for their own good. 

John C.

[Mark5]

I'm very curious about whether two motors will be used, and if so, how DCC and DCC/Sound will be implemented.  Got to believe there will be a sound option, and that it probably will come from ESU. 

John C.

I have no interest in this model, but two motors would not be a new thing for Kato (see their HO P42).

[wcfn100]

I have no interest in this model, but two motors would not be a new thing for Kato (see their HO P42).

They have at least one non-US model with dual motors too.

Jason

[peteski]

I can't see the running gear all that well in the photo, but...the smokebox isn't well attached to the boiler, the cab looks like it's tilted forward, the tender looks like it's center axis is off center and the pilot looks wonky.  From photos I acquired a long time ago of one of their pilot models (sorry...I am sworn not to publish them) detailing overall looks pretty much right on for a modernized, oil-fired 4014 in excursion service, with the typical monkey-motion model articulation that allows running on Unitrack for that product's devotees.  Some items that are cast-on details on the Athearn model have been made separate, and/or much more distinct on the Kato model. 

I'm not sure what the purpose was to publish a bad photo of a badly assembled model as I am 100% positive that Kato completed the "pilot model" phase nearly a year ago and has fully assembled, fully painted and ready-to-go models right now. 

They're probably saving those good photos for next weekend's official introduction at Trainfest.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Bob, you are fixated on the Facebook photo from the initial  post in this thread, when some of us have long moved on to the technical  drawing (which was also posted on page 2 of this thread).  It clearly shows 2 motors with conical flywheels, and while not  absolutely clear, the rear engine might be rigidly mounted to the boiler.

I'm reposting that image here:

[robert3985]

Bob, you are fixated on the Facebook photo from the initial  post in this thread, when some of us have long moved on to the technical  drawing (which was also posted on page 2 of this thread).  It clearly shows 2 motors with conical flywheels, and while not  absolutely clear, the rear engine might be rigidly mounted to the boiler.

I'm reposting that image here:

@peteski Peter, wellllll....if I hafta be fixated on something, then an N-scale Big Boy is an excellent subject! 

Okay okay okay...I'll be really interested in seeing what the dual motors do for the model.  I assume really good pulling power, and prototypical out-of-synch-ness every now and then.  Maybe I should read my old previous posts for some continuity in my thought processes, but...nah...that'd be too simple. 

CHEERIO!!!
Bob Gilmore

[Chris333]

Kato's poll:

Here were the results of our last web poll, where we asked what "pie in the sky" future product you'd like to see us make in N scale:
#1 - Big Boy
#2 - Milwaukee Road Little Joe
#3 - LORAM Rail Grinder
#4 - UP DD40AX
#5 - Milwaukee Road Bi-Polar
Thanks everyone who participated!

So we got another Bigboy due to voting 

Also from Kato:

Kato USA, Inc.
It will have two motors in the locomotive

I think the official Kato CAD poster artwork disappeared when they redid their website.

[robert3985]

Bob, not to hijack the thread, just a question: what do you do to the Challenger tenders to backdate them? Is there a thread somewhere?
Thanks, Otto

@Cajonpassfan  Otto, I haven't backdated any Athearn Challenger tenders yet.  My plan is to 3D print the much simplified oil hatch (or hatches sometimes), the bunker top and the vents up towards the front of the oil bunker.  I was planning on visiting the 833 FEF-2's oil tender that's parked behind the fence at the Utah Railroad Museum in Ogden, but because of the pandemic and most of the volunteers who work there being OLD, they shut down, then opened sporadically so I could never get in, or never find anybody to give me permission to go up top and take photos and measurements. They are open on a regular schedule now, but doing that has not been a priority due to family matters and a big change in my financial world.

However, I did acquire a couple of the last run of Key's superdetailed FEF-2's...both oil fired, and their tender details are exquisite, so...I'm thinking about using them as references.

The main problem I have with any of the Athearn Challengers being oil fired is how to remove the ash pans under the firebox.  I haven't really studied the matter yet other than to get out my Challenger reference photos for oil-fired Challengers.  Hmmm...maybe the fireboxes on my Oriental oil-fired Challengers would be good to take a peek at...

Let's see...your time period is a single year...1940-something?  1946?  Lots of Challengers were coal fired in that era, with only a few being converted to burn oil, and later renumbered to the 3700 Class Challengers.  I am also not well informed if the LA & SLC was fully oil at that time or not.  UP filled up the last coal-fired engine at the Echo Coaling Tower on March 15, 1952. After that date, no more Big Boys plied the rails in Weber and Echo Canyons and Ogden to Green River was strictly oil country.  If you're looking to "backdate" your tenders to coal tenders, that's simple...I ordered Big Boy coal bunkers from Athearn, and snapped the oil bunkers out on selected Challengers, and then snapped coal bunkers in. Just gotta pry up the toolbox and remove it, then slide the bunker backwards.  It's a bit stiff, but it just slides back a bit, and then you can take it out. Put the new coal bunker in doing just the reverse.

Hope that answers at least part of your question!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Cajonpassfan]

@robert3985 Bob, no, no, no; no coal in  Southern California...all oil, since very early 20th century. I call my railroad "circa 1949" but actually have two specific periods in mind: Spring '48 and Spring '51. The former, mostly steam, is hard to do because of lack of appropriate locos,  but I did accumulate four Challengers for the earlier period. If you ever get around to backdating yours, I'll be very interested. (One of the Challengers, the original Athearn release, is a "project engine" I'd like to rebuild to represent the original series with a semi-Vanderbilt tender, see below, but that is a Project
Thanks for your feedback,
Otto

[peteski]

Kato's poll:

So we got another Bigboy due to voting 

Also from Kato:
I think the official Kato CAD poster artwork disappeared when they redid their website.

If I understood Charlie Vlk's earlier post correctly, Kato was considering producing N scale Big Boy when he was still working for Kato. That is quite a bit earlier than when the poll was taken.  The poll likely helped to move that project along.

I do agree that the poster artwork disappearance is due to Kato redesigning their website.

[Chris333]

So it was a rigged voting machine. 

[JMaurer1]

...and with the elections coming

[ncbqguy]

"It clearly shows 2 motors with conical flywheels, and while not  absolutely clear, the rear engine might be rigidly mounted to the boiler."
Only works if the motor on the lead engine is on the engine between the drivers, non-powered or Jack-shafted from the rear engine.  None of which are really viable.
Oh boy, a chance to over-engineer and complicate a solution to a non-problem!!
The rear engine is pivoted, like every articulated in N.
Charlie Vlk

[peteski]

"It clearly shows 2 motors with conical flywheels, and while not  absolutely clear, the rear engine might be rigidly mounted to the boiler."
Only works if the motor on the lead engine is on the engine between the drivers, non-powered or Jack-shafted from the rear engine.  None of which are really viable.
Oh boy, a chance to over-engineer and complicate a solution to a non-problem!!
The rear engine is pivoted, like every articulated in N.
Charlie Vlk

Why isn't everybody clearly seeing 2 motors in that loco's cross section drawing, without any mechanical drive shaft between them?

The motors are blue, and light purple is metal chassis.  Lavender are the engine chassis'.  No connection form the back of the front engine motor to the rear engine's flywheel.  I do agree that the model is way overengineered, but Kato has been doing that to other models too.

As for rigidly mounting the rear engine, my N scale brass Sakatsu Big Boy is made that way.  The front engine's pivot point is also similar to 1:1 - it pivots at the rear of the front engine.  It needs wide curves to run.