Locomotive sound volume

[Cajonpassfan]

I may be opening a can of worms here, but I'm curious about what  's here think about what appropriate sound volumes are.
This is a very subjective topic, so if you don't like sound at all, please don't bother telling us why sound in N scale, or any scale, is no good. This is intended for those of us who enjoy the dimension of sound in our trains and take steps to acquire or install sound components in an attempt to achieve optimal sound given our space limitations.
Some thoughts on my part:

The venue is is a major consideration, just like with music. If the venue is a county fair hall, or a large convention center room with high ambient noise,  a string quartet will probably not make much impact. So yea, crank the sound up on the Ntrak layout and hope to be heard....

But in a more intimate setting like a home layout, which is what I'm interested in, it's a different story. A loud single train may sound good on its own, but multiple trains can become a cacophony if not turned down. So I'm experimenting with sound levels, turning the prime movers and chuff way down, and allowing whistles, horns and dynamics to be more prominent. I even purchased a cheap sound meter on Amazon to be able to set volumes to a consistent level across brands and take some of the subjective judgment out of the equation. I also turn bells way down; they drive me nuts...

I'll do some testing with the sound meter and post results here, but meanwhile, thoughts and suggestions will be appreciated.
Fun stuff,
Otto K.

[tehachapifan]

I primarily run ESU and Zimo sound decoders and I generally turn prime mover volume way down but keep horns turned up. Seems default settings in a lot of sound decoders have the horn way to quiet in relation to the prime mover. I also base volumes off of what I think the speaker and driver components can handle, which is often far below default settings (and way below max settings) with N scale installs...especially when using a .5W speaker. All this said, sound doesn't scale very well with regards to distance, meaning trains at the far end of the layout will often still be too audible as compared to the real world (coupled with terrain, etc., not blocking sound like in the real world). So, that can be a bit distracting to some.

Another area relating to the scaling-down of sound, and where there have been many lively discussions regarding differing opinions and expectations, is what an N scale loco sitting and idling, say, 2-3 feet away from you should sound like. There is a camp that firmly believes it should sound just like you're 2-3 feet away from a real locomotive and another camp that believes it should sound like you're several hundred feet from a real locomotive (as you would be that many scale feet from the N scale loco at 2-3 actual feet). I'm in the second camp. Then there's a tiny faction that wants it to sound like you're actually inside the locomotive.

[ednadolski]

JMHO, I don't see the need for a meter.... just set it to whatever level you like.

[Cajonpassfan]

Lol, you're probably right, but I like gadgets Besides, I have a lot of engines and would like to keep them consistent...
Pics below: at idle, in run 8 at 15 mph, and in dynamics. Horn is about 83 decibels. I need to figure out how to turn down the sound at idle without lowering it in run 8.
Otto

[NDave]

I have struggled with balancing the sound volumes of my steam locomotives, and can see how a sound meter might facilitate "sound-matching" locomotives...

Has anybody used a sound meter app on their cell phone for this purpose? I see there are a number available, free or otherwise, for Apple or Android.  If you've used an app, please share your experience!

[peteski]

I'm with Russ preferring "scale" sound emanating from our tiny models.  No "Sound of Thunder" gadgets for me.

I also agree with Ed that a sound meter is not really necessary.  Not only different types of locos will not (and should not) have identical volumes, but the sound level will change even moving a foot in any direction. Nobody follows a model at some constant distance.  Why not just use human ears?  Various prime movers, horns or bells should all have different relative sound levels. To sound accurate, they should not all be all consistent.

But if you like gadgets Otto -- go for it!   

[Cajonpassfan]

Well, the gadget cost less that a typical freight car, so it's cheap entertrainment...
And while I agree each loco should have its own individual characteristics, the relative volumes should be somewhat consistent, especially among similar classes of locos with different decoders. I already identified some "loudmouths" that need taming
Having a tangible, measurable baseline should help. YMMV.
Like I said, fun stuff.
Otto

[greenwizard88]

I keep my engines on a low volume. Generally whatever the lowest volume is when you double tap function 8 on a Paragon decoder is where I like my volume to be at. I put the horn a little higher, or depending on the decoder, maybe the prime mover a litter lower, instead.

It's good enough where you can hear the sounds, but it doesn't overwhelm me.

Of course if I ever break out the Rolling Thunder, that engine gets everything turned up to the max. That is some seriously cool sounds.

[Pomperaugrr]

I am guilty of having the engine sounds too high.  It was part of the gee whiz, this is cool effect when I first converted to ESU sound.  I will definitely be lowering the volume on the sound equipped locomotive fleet, as it is overwhelming when there are a number of locomotives running at the same time.

[jdcolombo]

I keep the sound level of prime movers fairly low.  I think I set it at 60 (the default is something like 100 or 120 if I remember correctly).  I turn the horn all the way up and the bell up a lot.  If you're at a grade crossing watching a train, the horn nearly blows your eardrums out and the bell is clearly audible above the prime mover; the prime mover is really just a low-level hum in the background.

With steam locos, I do keep the chuffs fairly loud - usually at about that 120 mark.  Partly that's because I find the chuffs far more interesting sound-wise than the drone of a prime mover. 

I'm also in the "scale it down" camp.  I don't want my N-scale locos to sound like i'm 3-feet from the prototype.  And in an operating session, where there may be a dozen diesels running at the same time in a 15x30' room, I really don't want the background sound level very high.  But after years of experience with sound, I could never, ever go back to "sound-less" locomotives . . .

John C.

[peteski]

. . .
 And in an operating session, where there may be a dozen diesels running at the same time in a 15x30' room, I really don't want the background sound level very high.  But after years of experience with sound, I could never, ever go back to "sound-less" locomotives . . .

John C.

Exactly. I was going to mention that but the thought escaped me.  If you have ops session on a home-size layout with half-a-dozen or more sound equipped locos being operated, at higher volumes the diesel sound (or even chuffs) gets very tiresome and annoying in no time.

[mmagliaro]

I'd say that any "constant" sound (like the prime mover in a diesel or the steady chuffing of a steam loco) on a home layout should be low enough so that you cannot hear it if you are in another "logical scene" of your layout.  i.e. If you have a mainline with a large yard at either end of it, or 2-3 industrial switching locations spaced around the layout, I would not want to hear engine sounds coming from yard 1 while I am standing at yard 2.  Not only is that distracting, but it destroys the illusion of compressed distance we try to create on our little home layouts.  We shouldn't be able to hear engines moving around in a yard that is not where we are currently switching our own train.

I realize this is easier to achieve in a 40-foot basement space than it is in a 12 foot bedroom.

As for "intermittent sounds" (whistles, horn, bell, etc), definitely louder than the chuff/prime mover.  They aren't on all the time and are SUPPOSED to get your attention when they sound.  Plus, it is more reasonable to hear those sounds from far away.  Heck, I can hear the whistle of SP #4449 from my house when it is on the line through Oregon City headed to Portland (yes, I am that lucky), and that is 2-3 miles away from me.

[tehachapifan]

I'd say that any "constant" sound (like the prime mover in a diesel or the steady chuffing of a steam loco) on a home layout should be low enough so that you cannot hear it if you are in another "logical scene" of your layout.  i.e. If you have a mainline with a large yard at either end of it, or 2-3 industrial switching locations spaced around the layout, I would not want to hear engine sounds coming from yard 1 while I am standing at yard 2.  Not only is that distracting, but it destroys the illusion of compressed distance we try to create on our little home layouts.  We shouldn't be able to hear engines moving around in a yard that is not where we are currently switching our own train.

I realize this is easier to achieve in a 40-foot basement space than it is in a 12 foot bedroom.

As for "intermittent sounds" (whistles, horn, bell, etc), definitely louder than the chuff/prime mover.  They aren't on all the time and are SUPPOSED to get your attention when they sound.  Plus, it is more reasonable to hear those sounds from far away.  Heck, I can hear the whistle of SP #4449 from my house when it is on the line through Oregon City headed to Portland (yes, I am that lucky), and that is 2-3 miles away from me.

I don't disagree but this is what I meant when I said sound doesn't scale well with regards to distance/terrain/obstacles. In order for a loco's prime mover to not be heard from the far side of a layout, for example, the prime mover volume would have to be turned down so low that it would almost be pointless to even have it. Especially since I can hear a non-sound loco's mechanism running at that distance (on my home layout anyway). Plus, I find that a prime mover's quality and robustness isn't as apparent at extremely low volumes. All this said, I still do turn the prime mover volume down quite a bit while keeping the horn up.

[Bill H]

One layout that I operate on frequently is all sound. Every loco has a sound decoder and operates with as many as 15 operators at one time. In short, both diesel and steam base volumes are set so that the operator hears the engine sounds when standing next to or following the loco, but other operators don't hear it. Bells are set the same way. Whistle sounds are louder, so that operators on the other side of a tunnel, or a few feet way hear the whistle as should be expected in real life. I have never heard a complaint about the sound volumes done in this manner. And frankly, everyone operator seems to enjoy it - even those who don't have sound on their own layouts.

Kind regards,
Bill

[milw156]

The 3 main sounds you hear railfanning are the prime mover, the horn, and the bell. First thing you hear is the horn, frequently a mile away, next, the PM, (usually the deep rumble not really obtainable in N scale) at maybe .25mi, and finally the bell at maybe 300-600 feet. for home use, I take CV63 down to 64(50%), the PM 50-60, horn 75+/- and the bell around 32(25%) and then play with them. also, things like the compressor, spitters and other "random" sounds also need to be brought way down so they don't detract from the overall experience, they need to be BACKGROUND noises. I downloaded a sound meter app to my phone, but hardly ever use it. Put the loco in notch 8, then play the horn and the bell until the horn comes out over the PM, but the bell comes out under it. I was speed matching some locos yesterday with the sound on, and random compressor came on drowning out everything else, kind of ruining the whole thing, so dont forget about the little stuff, couplers too.