ESU 58721 in a Bachmann H16-44?

[PiperguyUMD]

Hi All,

I've always had a soft spot for FMs and the Virginian even though they have nothing to do with the WM. So when this hottie popped up on the auction site, I pulled the trigger. BTW - I'd love to have a pair if anyone has one they want to part with!



So as I'm looking at the inside of this thing, I'm wondering if there isn't any reason I couldn't use an ESU 58721 instead of a 58923. Obviously the 58721 would have to be hardwired in, but the dimension seem to work, plus it includes LEDs. Thoughts?



Thanks!

[Steveruger45]

I assume the speaker will be going under the short hood. The length of the micro might be a slight issue in that case and may involve making a bespoke speaker enclosure or milling away some of the frame in that area. Otherwise I don’t see any reason why not.  I’ve done similar installs with the older 73199 in similar atlas locos ok.
Just be sure to insulate the bottom of the micro to avoid shorting the speaker and motor pads with the frame.

[peteski]

"Bespoke speaker"?  That should somehow be immortalized in one of the TRW banners! 

[tehachapifan]

I had to look up the definition.

[Steveruger45]

  . 

[peteski]

I had to look up the definition.

I would have had to do the same, but I already looked it up last year, after a barrage of TV ads for bespokepost.com.  The word sounds nothing like its meaning.

[PiperguyUMD]

So I gave this install a go, pretty straight forward. There were some copper contacts for track power on the factory board that I unsoldered and reattached to the ESU board, which worked surprisingly well.

Fast forward to yesterday, I was enjoying the smooth rumble of the F&M sounds when all of a sudden I lost motor control. The sounds and lights continued to operate, but the unit just stopped. I pulled the shell off and checked all connections (which were good), put the shell back on, and it worked for a few more laps, then stopped again. I can’t find any bad connections. Also tried a factory reset, still no motor control.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[peteski]

Well, some basic troubleshooting is in order.

Was this loco a good runner in DC, or you never ran it much that way?

I was thinking that maybe the motor consumes excessive amount of current, but the decoder's motor output is supposedly protected against that.

If you are absolutely certain the connections between the motor and decoder are solid, and the DC model is enabled (in CV29), try running it in DC.
Another thing to try would be to disconnected the motor from the decoder and see it will will run in DC. I suppose you coudl even power the motro from a 9V battery if no DC throttle is handy.

Of course the other thing to try would be:  temporarily install that decoder in another loco (or just remove it from the misbehaving loco and wire a spare motor to the decoder).  I suppose you can even leave the decoder installed, disconnect the motor, and temporarily wire in a spare motor.

[PiperguyUMD]

Forgot to mention that I did put the board in another H16-44 and had the same results.

Since I can still program the CVs, would it tell me anything if I enable DC operation and it still doesn’t run?

Thanks for the help! I suck at electronics 

[peteski]

Forgot to mention that I did put the board in another H16-44 and had the same results.

Since I can still program the CVs, would it tell me anything if I enable DC operation and it still doesn’t run?

Thanks for the help! I suck at electronics 

Well, the DC power might bypass some of the decoder's motor routines.

One more thing I should have mentioned would be to upload another sound project into the decoder and see if that makes a difference.  Maybe something in that sound project got corrupted.

If you tried in another (working) H16-44 and the motor still doesn't run then that would seem to indicate the problem is with the decoder. But I don't like the intermittent behavior you mentioned earlier. The loco ran for a while, then it didn't, then it ran again for short time, and now motor is dead (in 2 different locos).  I would say that if you have a spare motor (any N scale 12V motor) it would be good test to connect it to that decoder and see if it runs.

Also, since the decoder is not specifically designed to fit this loco, are you absolutely sure that the metal frames do not contact any of the decoder's traces or components?

[reinhardtjh]

If it runs for a while then stops, then runs again after waiting a little while it might be heat.  Maybe the shell is trapping heat or something about the motor is drawing too much current and heating the decoder.  How long will it run with the shell off?

[peteski]

If it runs for a while then stops, then runs again after waiting a little while it might be heat.  Maybe the shell is trapping heat or something about the motor is drawing too much current and heating the decoder.  How long will it run with the shell off?

I did consider that but as I understand the problem description, that decoder is now totally dead.  Maybe I misunderstood.  I troubleshoot computer equipment for living, and getting an accurate and complete description and timeline of the problem from my customers is very difficult. 

[PiperguyUMD]

I ran all three of these on DC for about an hour to get them loosened up. They run quite well.

The top of the frame is covered in Kapton tap  save a small sliver where the copper strips pick up rail power. I have short protection on my modules, if this eas the issue wouldn’t it have tripped?

I suppose there’s a possibility that heat is the culprit, but I never noticed anything after the break in laps, or after 45 minutes of reliable DCC operation on Monday evening.

I’ll try operating the loco in DC tomorrow afternoon and report back then.

[peteski]

I ran all three of these on DC for about an hour to get them loosened up. They run quite well.

The top of the frame is covered in Kapton tap  save a small sliver where the copper strips pick up rail power. I have short protection on my modules, if this eas the issue wouldn’t it have tripped?

I suppose there’s a possibility that heat is the culprit, but I never noticed anything after the break in laps, or after 45 minutes of reliable DCC operation on Monday evening.

I’ll try operating the loco in DC tomorrow afternoon and report back then.

It is unlikely that shorting the frame to some trace or small components on the decoder would have tripped the track-power breakers. In many instances very little current is needed to damage some delicate component on the decoder board.

Your earlier statements are not very clear to me. Can you confirm that currently there is no motor control at all times (as you mentioned earlier), or when the loco cools down (or is taken off the track for some time) it will run again for some time next time you try it.

[PiperguyUMD]

There is no motor control ever, but all sound and light outputs are functioning. When it’s on the programming track, I can access and change CVs, but still no motor control