The B&O East End – Brunswick to Patterson Creek in N

[TrainCat2]

While I will be building a small layout to run some trains until I retire in 5 years, I have already started the initial thought process and design of the B&O East End. The mainline of the B&O from Cumberland to Brunswick was a very heavily traveled line. During it’s peak, a train pasted any given point every few minutes in one direction or the other. The main was mainly 3 or 4 tracks with a few brief lengths of dual track; such as crossing the Potomac at Harpers Ferry.

The East End covered 100 miles beginning at Weverton and ended at the Cumberland Yard limits. It had:

• 5 B&O branch lines (Hagerstown Branch at Weverton, Fog Hollow in Martinsburg, Berkeley Springs Branch at Hancock, South Branch at Green Springs and Patterson Creek Cutoff at Patterson Creek)
• 6 Interchanges (N&W at Shenandoah Junction, CVRR at Martinsburg, PRR at West Cumbo, WM at Cherry Run, WM again at Baird for emergencies, WM still again just before entering the Cumberland yard)
• 3 Yards of significant size (West Cumbo, Hancock and Green Springs)
• 1 Engine Service facility at Sir John’s Run
• MANY low stone arch deck bridges such as Cherry Run, Sleepy Creek and Cacapon Creek.
• 6 Large Bridges (Harpers Ferry, Opequon Creek, Back Creek, Magnolia, Kessler and South Branch)
• 5 Tunnels (Harpers Ferry, Randolph, Stuart, Graham and Carothers). Other than Harpers Ferry, the remaining tunnels were part of the Magnolia Cutoff as were Magnolia and Kessler bridges.
• 4 Large producing On-Line Industries (Engle Limestone Quarry, Martinsburg Limestone Quarry, Fruit Processor at Paw Paw and Kopper Tie Treatment at Green Springs). Both quarries sent 100 car unit trains to Pittsburgh several times a week via Cumberland using USRA 55 ton 2-Bay Hoppers.
• Three daily major Passenger Trains running 2 trains each (Capital Limited, National Limited, Cincinnatian) plus locals making all the stops in between.

[TrainCat2]

The East End had a lot going on scenically and operationally in the 40’s and 50’s. So how do you operate a beast like this? Automation! My thought here is use TrainController (or equivalent) and setup through trains on a schedule. Then operators would get assigned the locals, limestone drags or anything else in between the schedules. There would be large train ready racks at each end with a exterior helix to move trains back to their origin ant the end of the run. Should allow for a constant flow of trains. Expect to see working CPL’s with both upper and lower markers to help operators along through the parade of trains.

Construction …. Hmmm … not cast in stone yet. Matter of fact, I just have ideas. [MindDump] So the actual East End has a very slow, fairly continuous grade, climbing east to west that will be the key to building the main line. If I keep a constant compensated grade just over 1% over the mainline, there will always be a constant rail to rail vertical clearance of +16in. The main just spirals up around the walls and partitions on a shelf. The shelf! Construction is my uncertainty since I don’t want the thickness, or weight, of 1x2 frames plus a base. I have been thinking about using 2in foam as the shelf base attached to shelf hangers. Just a thought here guys, throwing spit balls to see what sticks. So far no issue until I start considering the very large number of crossovers and switch machine needed here. Every time the tracks go from 3-4 or 4-3, the B&O had an interlocker requiring 11 turnouts, ergo 11 switch machines like the Tortoise or SMAIL. How do people using foam bases attach switch machines? I have imagined cutting a square chunk through the foam base just oversized of the Tortoise, thinning the base to about 3/8in and glue it back in. Glue a piece of 1/8in ply to the 3/8in base and mount the Tortoise to the ply. OK, enough rambling to start. [/MindDump]

[sirenwerks]

The forties would be a great time to model.


I grew up in Ellicott City on the OML, moved there just after Agnes hit and have hiked all over the hills for miles in both directions along that line, from Relay to Frederick.  For the longest time I had an affinity for four axle blue EMD lash-ups and the squeal of long strings of hoppers. Loved spending time in Cumberland and PoR and Harpers Ferry.  I still have the affinity for 4-axle power, but when I moved to Oregon I shifted my focus to Alcos and timber industries.

[wm3798]

I am highly enthusiastic about this project.  It is territory with which I am well familiar, and for which I have a deep fondness.  As of last August, I have a significant investment there as well, having purchased my 13 acres of wooded paradise halfway between Berkeley Springs and Paw Paw. The Magnolia Cutoff passes within about 20 minutes of my house.  (It's a lot closer as the crow flies, but you know... those Green Rolling Hills of West Virginia....

I have also long imagined how I would build out a layout that even skims the surface of the majesty that is the Potomac Valley.  If you've ever been across Cacapon Ridge (Pronounced variously by the locals as "KayPon" or "K-KAY-pin") and stopped at the Panorama Overlook, you can quickly see the challenge you'll face in capturing the essence of the area on a narrow shelf layout.



The Potomac is that patch of glass in the middle, the B&O is in the line of trees to the left of it, heading toward the village of Great Cacapon.  On the opposite shore is the C&O Canal hugging the river's edge (for the most part) and just up hill from there is the Western Maryland's Cumberland Extension, now a rail trail.  Building the B&O line simply as a track chart will not do justice to the subject.  You're going to have to work in some larger dioramas to more fully depict the area in order to convince your visitors and the viewers at home that they know exactly what they are looking at.  If you are planning an around the walls style "one-lix" layout, may I suggest that use sections of your back drop to hide one or two of the upper levels for brief turns in order to highlight a particular scene, such as the bridges at Harpers Ferry, or ancient hills that create the PawPaw bends through Green Ridge.  You're just going to need some bigger "sky" than the proposed 16" separation will allow. 

You can also deploy some peninsulas that emulate those big bends in the river, and creates the opportunity to have a simple race track style loop for Western Maryland trains to interact with B&O on the main line below.  This would be a good way to represent the Magnolia Cutoff, over which the two lines weave an interesting tapestry through tunnels, over bridges, and with the original PawPaw grade, do so at several locations and elevations.





The switching and industrial bits can be more pedestrian, with representative interchange tracks and industrial sidings (BTW, you forgot to mention US Silica in Berkeley Springs which was established in the late 19th century, and continues to ship silica sand for glass manufacturer.  The branch no longer reaches into the town of Berkeley Springs, but it does serve the sand mill.)

If you have a scale diagram of the train room, perhaps we could work out a route that allows for the scenic interest to rise to the magnitude of the operational possibilities, and vice versa.

Needless to say, on my 3' hollow core door, the struggle is real, but but this area is at the heart of my design.



Watching with extreme interest...
Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

What's your plan for motive power?

FTs, early Es. And then modifying BLI mikes and pacifics en masse?

[TrainCat2]

What's your plan for motive power?

FTs, early Es. And then modifying BLI mikes and pacifics en masse?

When running in 1947-1949, Bmann EM-1’s, BLI Mikes and Pacifics in both heavy and light for now. I plan on bashing the Y-6B into an EE-1 after it comes out. I also want to see if I can fit my Key P-7d Cincinnatian shell onto a BLI Pacific since I have two sets

When running 1953-1956, I’ll add BLI E-6’s, F-3’s and F-7’s. Need to learn how to put an ESU sound decoders into Intermountain and MTL FT’s, Kato F-3’s and Atlas GP-9TT’s

[TrainCat2]

A message from Randgust got me thinking about a B&O module. Although I have nowhere here in SouFla to run it, I always liked to visit Timonium.

How about Harpers Ferry in an 8ft module? I can fit 8ft 3in with no problem into my Odyssey van. All three lines would enter the east portal of Harpers Ferry Tunnel. Maryland heights would be a view block to frame the river crossing. At the west end portal, the branch line would cross over the Potomac through 2-3 Pratt Truss bridges and go behind the hill. The mains would cross over on the main bridge to HF station, travel along the Potomac for a little bit then rejoin with the branch line.

Good or bad idea ????

[sirenwerks]

A message from Randgust got me thinking about a B&O module. Although I have nowhere here in SouFla to run it, I always liked to visit Timonium.

How about Harpers Ferry in an 8ft module? I can fit 8ft 3in with no problem into my Odyssey van. All three lines would enter the east portal of Harpers Ferry Tunnel. Maryland heights would be a view block to frame the river crossing. At the west end portal, the branch line would cross over the Potomac through 2-3 Pratt Truss bridges and go behind the hill. The mains would cross over on the main bridge to HF station, travel along the Potomac for a little bit then rejoin with the branch line.

Good or bad idea ????

That's a 16-footer, IMO. A lot of river going on there, and don't forget the C&O canal lock 33, complete with an algae bloom and a few heron.

[wm3798]

You may want to refer to this engineering report... In case you missed it.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=45333.0

How did the Barenaked Ladies put it?  It's all been done before!

Lee

[TrainCat2]

Bryan, The more I thought about it, compressing the crossing into 8-12ft would not do it justice.

Lee, Bob (spelled forwards) is doing a great job on that layout. Did not know about it until you pointed it out. Thanks! I really like how the Shenandoah branch is also the Frog Hollow branch in Martinsburg. For my layout, my givens are to have scenes much farther apart. At least 1-1/2 train lengths between modeled scenes. I have always remembered Tony's Koesters remark about having the head of a train being in one scene while the caboose is still in the previous scene.

Guys, I'm trying to take Ed's advice (pains me to think he is right about something  ) in getting my feet wet with something smaller. TTrak is just to small for me to do to justify driving the 1000 miles from SouFla to Timonium to run modules and meetup with the A$$Hats. Besides, I would be taking everything off the modules when I move to AZ for use in the layout. I was just curious what others thought of the idea making the Ferry into a portable module. Don't be shy now ... out with it!

Since the layout won't happen until at least 2027/8, I need something to do. So back to the module. I guess since the scene will eventually be the same, the module might as well go here in this thread. As mentioned in the Crew Lounge, I have already contacted my former etcher that I was using after I sold my etching equipment. I will be ordering 4 sheets of 90ft Desk Truss bridges and 3 sheets of the double track through Pratt bridge for the Shenandoah sub which will be the branch line.  The trick for me will be to back date the Ferry to the 1940's. Let's face it, the 1931 bridge is now 91 YO and it looked VERY different then from today. So there are 12 regular height spans in the water, one low height span over the road and one regular height span over the C&O Canal. That would be 94.5in alone if I built it to actual. I would not want a module joint on the bridge so I may shorten it to a total of 12 spans on the module.

The Ferry and the B&O can be placed into five phases where bridges, track usages, alignments and scenery were changed by man, time and forces of nature. I found it easier in my mind to work forward in history than trying to back date. I'll discuss them in the next post since they will determine the design. It will also be interesting to see the history.

[pjm20]

I am in a similar situation with an imminent move to a permanent place to live (hopefully not 2027, more like next year). After a lot of thought over the last few years of constant moving, I think I'm going to go with the approach of Doug Nelson's layout: just model a town or an important scene, that loops behind a view block for some staging and continues running. The whole scene could be a  focused on a local switching a town or model important structures. What's great about this approach is that it's small enough to get your toes wet and if you choose wisely, you can incorporate it into the future layout. It can be a test bed for motive power and rolling stock, figure out what you want from DCC and how you want to wire a layout. I'm going to do this approach to model Canton, PA for an eventual Elmira Branch themed layout (let's go BLI with those I1s). Depending on how you design it, you can make the loops on each end going to staging the same as N Trak, Fremo, or whatever standard you may like to connect with.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I mean, you can always TTRAK on your kitchen table, but I get it.

That said, Freemo feels like the obvious way to go with it.

You'd be famous.

It'd also create the opportunity for dueling big a$$ bridges!

[wm3798]

I would go with something smaller and more "do-able" for a whistle whetter. 

Harpers Ferry could potentially take years to do right (as other Bob is demonstrating with an excruciating level of detail) especially if you're contemplating doing the whole town on the hillside and the various bridges and trestles.  But then again, you've got 5 years to do it, so maybe it's all good.  I'm more concerned about how it would end up fitting into a space that is as yet undetermined.  A 12' or 16' set of modules will require a particular type of real estate to work into a home layout space.  The bridges will limit your ability to bend it in the middle, and the natural curve the line follows up river will mean that, no matter what, your viewing angle has to follow that curve.  You don't want to end up like the guy who had to design his Horseshoe Curve layout with the grade rising left to right...

So I would offer that a good starter module could be Shenandoah Junction.  You've got the NW tracks overhead, the junction tracks, in your time frame a cool little depot.  There's an intense amount of structure and scenery details to tease out, and it can be all worked out in one or two 2'x4' panels, or on two hollow core doors if that's your most portable option.  (Moving 16' of HF with fragile brass bridges, potentially a mid bridge module connection etc. in order to fit it into the Studebaker adds layers of challenge to the basic logistics of the project, and has the potential to require significant compromises that would be immediately apparent to even the most casual viewer given the iconic nature of the scene.)

I'll never tell you it can't be done.  That would be like waving a red cape in front of a bull.  But I do think you could start with something that lets you focus on the modeling without jumping through a lot of hoops to just come up with a suitable structure.

Lee

[TrainCat2]

It'd also create the opportunity for dueling big a$$ bridges!

Sweet!  Don't know if you remember, but I do have all of the sheets needed to build the entire ATSF crossing of the Colorado at Topock. The Pratt Deck sections alone are 97in with another 18in of approach deck girders.





My only problem is that all of my bridges have a built-in 1.125 track C2C.

[TrainCat2]

(Moving 16' of HF with fragile brass bridges, potentially a mid bridge module connection etc. in order to fit it into the Studebaker adds layers of challenge to the basic logistics of the project, and has the potential to require significant compromises that would be immediately apparent to even the most casual viewer given the iconic nature of the scene.

If I can fit this (the Dauntless is 8ft 2.5in in length)



into this with tons of room to spare





Modules transported in a rolling dolly will be 1000% easier. You do have a point Lee, I'm just not convinced either way and I am grateful for members views. I am stubborn as you know .....