Here we go, NS taking preemptive action

[signalmaintainer]

Like it or not, third-party contractors are the future, as they are the present in several other trades. The training requirement situation will be met. Not tomorrow or the next day, but soon enough.

Heard that 14 years ago: to wit, in 10 years all maintenance jobs on North American railroads would be done by contractors. Hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect it will happen for another 14 years, or even 20 or 25. Not until after the railroads are nationalized, which as things are evolving might have better odds of occurring first. And don't say it's not likely.

[mu26aeh]

Good read here on the done deal that is no where close to being done, and no where close to being supported enough to pass with simple yes votes

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/09/26/rail-s26.html?fbclid=IwAR2VQYX14gineMunLtjtT2j2ZBHl9U6Pcj9Jh8alonqrwqno0jDzhPLQUUk

[John]

Interesting reading -- I imagine the Union Bosses still get paid though and ride around first class?

[Philip H]

That analysis complete with what we heard in a certain NS engineer’s basement a couple weekends ago.

[signalmaintainer]

But this article, which I believe to be true, is a game-changer.

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/who-spilled-the-beans-on-binding-arbitration/

Are the unions being "shrewd", as the author opines? Or have they sold out the rank and file, with votes on tentative agreements being a toothless formality?

[Hawghead]

That analysis complete with what we heard in a certain NS engineer’s basement a couple weekends ago.

I wouldn't necessarily give to much weight to what you hear in a "certain NS engineer's basement".  I was very surprised at just how little most of my coworkers understood about the details of the PEB's recommendations and how few had read even as little as the Executive Summary, let alone the actual details of the proposal.  A case in point.  Currently we pay 15% of the carriers cost of our health care policy.  However in the last agreement our contribution was "capped" at a fixed dollar amount, so as the cost to the carrier increased over the years our contribution remained the same.  The current proposal is to remove that "cap" and we would have to pay the actual 15% of the cost to the carrier of our health care costs each month.  You would be amazed at how many people thought that removing the cap meant that the carrier could force us to pay whatever percentage of the cost of health care the carrier wanted us to pay.  I had people telling me that we'd soon be paying 75 to 100% or our health care costs.

As to the unions being able to override the rank and file vote.  This is true of some of the Unions the UTU or SMART as they are now called being one example, however it is not true of the BLET.  Event though were are affiliated with the Teamsters we do not share their rules for contracts.  If the rank and file of the BLET votes down the tentative agreement down then it will not be ratified.  Now does the union count non-votes as a yes vote?  I don't know, but decisions are made by those who show up.  If someone doesn't vote, they don't have the right to bitch about the results.

Phil, I'm not suggesting your friend is uninformed, just that you can't assume that someone who works for the railroad is "in the know".  Unfortunately most railroaders are like most of the country when it comes to being informed on the issues of the day.  They get their information from their Tweeter feed, Reddit, Youtube and word-of-mouth.  The feeling I get from talking to my co-workers is that striking is not something they want to do because it's right, but more of just wanting to be part of the chaos, a railroad version of the January 6th kind of thing.

Finally, before anyone thinks I'm some sort of rah-rah supporter of the proposed agreement, I don't know how I'm going to vote.  On the surface it seems to me to be a decent contract, much better than ones we've negotiated in the past, but I need to see the details of how some of the proposals are going to be implemented, the self-supporting pools being one (I wont bore you with the details).  I may very well wind up voting against the tentative agreement, but if I do, it'll be because I understand the details of what's being proposed and I don't support them.  Not because my buddy told me the "The unions are paid off lackeys of the carriers and are just trying to screw us while lining there own pockets and we need to rise up!"

Scott

[Philip H]

Phil, I'm not suggesting your friend is uninformed, just that you can't assume that someone who works for the railroad is "in the know".

Would that include you?

Look, I didn't use his name because that conversation was in a semi-cone of trust. The man has 3 decades of experience as a road engineer in eastern Class 1's. BLET member in good standing.  And so he's got a very vested interest in what's coming down the pipe.  At the point that conversation was had, he had seen the news reports, talked to his shop steward, and was waiting on his ballot.  And he was clear that if they didn't do better then the PEB on attendance policies, he and most of the engineers he knew were NO votes. From the cheap seats I have seen nothing - including your additional details - that would make me believe he's changed his mind.  I trust the guy to tell me fairly and honestly what he's thinking.  Just as I trust you.

[Hawghead]

Would that include you?

Look, I didn't use his name because that conversation was in a semi-cone of trust. The man has 3 decades of experience as a road engineer in eastern Class 1's. BLET member in good standing.  And so he's got a very vested interest in what's coming down the pipe.  At the point that conversation was had, he had seen the news reports, talked to his shop steward, and was waiting on his ballot.  And he was clear that if they didn't do better then the PEB on attendance policies, he and most of the engineers he knew were NO votes. From the cheap seats I have seen nothing - including your additional details - that would make me believe he's changed his mind.  I trust the guy to tell me fairly and honestly what he's thinking.  Just as I trust you.

Phil,
I'm not 100% sure but I get the feeling I may have offended you in some way.  If so I sincerely apologize, and I certainly didn't intend to disparage your friend, as I said I didn't necessarily include him as someone who is not well informed.  As far as me being "in the know", I can assure you I am not!  Everything I talk about here is my personal opinion or my personal experience, how ever I can also assure you that I have read, in detail, every word forwarded by the national committee concerning the PEB recommendation and the currently proposed agreement.

As far as the attendance policy is concerned, and I'm speaking only as it currently exists on the Union Pacific, I'm not sure what everyone is so wrapped around the axle about.  The UP has, as long as I've been here, had a fairly draconian attendance policy.  However I can tell you that, at least here in the Portland Service Unit, no one has ever been fired for attendance.  Many have gone to investigation for it but no one has ever been fired.  I, myself have been to investigation for attendance and it was dismissed.  There is nothing that management here loves more than taking people to investigation.  That is slowing changing as the old guard of managers is being replaced by a new generation.  You have to understand that attendance never used to be an issue as all the train crews used to be money whores.  We had, up until the mandated federal rest policy, yard jobs and locals that were seven day a week jobs, they had no days off and you had to have some serious whiskers to hold them!  The fact that newer personnel are no longer as concerned about making every dollar they can has made the company over react to attendance.  UP management is probably the worst group of people on the face of the earth when it comes to problem solving.  Their first reaction to every problem is who to blame.

I've never been great at communicating my thoughts and feelings via text, which is odd considering how well I always did in my college writing classes.  Anyway again if I offended you, I apologize.

Scott

[mu26aeh]

My company has a 6 day policy for hourly employees, meaning I can only be on clock 6 consecutive days.  If I go 1 second onto a 7th, myself and my boss get in trouble.  When I was salary, and covering warehouse plus my regular route position, I routinely worked 14-21 days straight but it didn't matter bc it was salary, and I am what you describe as a money where.  Which I don't have a problem with, my feeling is if I am not being forced to work and I'm get compensated, I'll work every chance.   Can't do much without money these days.  And when I was salary, I was paid extra when I covered other jobs/positions.  Now it's all OT, do I'm good

[mu26aeh]

3rd largest railroad union rejects agreement

https://news.yahoo.com/large-rail-union-rejects-deal-175415126.html

[Philip H]

The money quote:

Union President Tony Cardwell said the railroads didn't do enough to address the lack of paid time off — particularly sick time — and working conditions after the major railroads eliminated nearly one-third of their jobs over the past six years.

“Railroaders are discouraged and upset with working conditions and compensation and hold their employer in low regard. Railroaders do not feel valued,” Cardwell said in a statement. “They resent the fact that management holds no regard for their quality of life, illustrated by their stubborn reluctance to provide a higher quantity of paid time off, especially for sickness.”

I fully expect the engineers to vote no as well.

[signalmaintainer]

I fully expect the engineers to vote no as well.

I do as well, and the conductors too, and very likely signal.

The four unions would comprise the bulk in membership of scheduled employees. But moreover, you can't run trains without crews or well-maintained track, and nothing is running above restricted speed on PTC trackage without signal to test and maintain the signal systems.

[John]

I do as well, and the conductors too, and very likely signal.

The four unions would comprise the bulk in membership of scheduled employees. But moreover, you can't run trains without crews or well-maintained track, and nothing is running above restricted speed on PTC trackage without signal to test and maintain the signal systems.

I doubt Biden will let that happen

[packers#1]

I don’t know if it’s Biden or not, but someone sure has been putting their thumbs on the scales if the reports about the elections so far have been true.

[Philip H]

I doubt Biden will let that happen

The PBE is as his only response that he controls. Any further r federal action to prevent a strike takes the US Senate.