Author Topic: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)  (Read 31617 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jagged ben

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +500
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2022, 07:49:39 PM »
0
...

Seems that people have been most concerned about the slack, or lack thereof, so I’ll address that first:

According to this railway age article (https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/freight-cars/mechanical-couplers) new type E couplers have 25/32” worth of slack. They would wear from there, but let’s take this at face value. That’s about 0.00488” or .125mm of slack per coupling in N scale! The N-Possible prototypes have about that much slack; Don’t underestimate just how much better model trains operate with a lower slack coupler! Yes, prototype couplers have slack. No, they don’t have coupler slack even in the same universe as traditional MRR coupler designs. Don’t confuse coupler slack with draft gear movement.

...

Note that slack; Its not in the coupler head, its in the draft gear.


Yeah, let's not get confused.  Draft gear movement.  That's what we're talking about.  Draft gear movement accounts for easily 90%+ of 'slack' in prototypes.  To be clear, your knuckle design looks great and I am certainly (absolutely, positively) not suggesting that you should have more slack between the knuckles like in common N scale designs of the de-facto MTL standard.   But lack of realistic draft gear movement would be a negative in my book, if for no other reason than that it's less realistic.  Not a deal breaker by itself, but a negative.

Quote
Only the traditional N/Z scale “MTL” coupler has draft gear slack, in all of the MRR coupler designs I’m aware of. ...

They all have some, because they all have some tolerance between the shank holes and the center post of the draft gear box.  But only MTL has oblong shank holes designed to further increase the draft gear movement.  That is, so far as I've seen.  I actually think the non-MTL have about a realistic amount of tolerance for a non-cushion prototype draft gear, and the MTL designs are too much.

Quote
The critical operational benefit of the low slack type head design is that the couplers STAY ALIGNED under buff (compression) conditions. The prototype does this, but MRR couplers of Kadee (or compatible designs) lineage DO NOT. They are unable to mechanically stay aligned at the head level (because of the massive slack), and consequently will tend to shift to their lateral travel limit, especially when a corner is encountered. The ability of couplers to stay aligned under buff allows for much more prototypical train handling characteristics, even with your models. You can effectively push any train you can pull; You can much more reliably operate DPU’s and helpers. Push-pull commuter trains work. Lightweight rolling stock is more reliable. I’d say it’s the equivalent improvement of moving from truck mounted to body mounted couplers in terms of buff reliablity. Under buff conditions: Truck mount<Body Mount<Aligned head design (body mount of course).

I respect people’s concern with respect to “reading slack” in helper/dpu type scenarios. But honestly, with couplers that stay aligned under buff, you will be shocked with just how much more “force tolerance” you have. Its massive. Operations with helpers/DPU’s are so much more reliable that you will never want to go back. I’ve operated test trains in extremes absolutely impossible to operate with traditional couplers that don’t stay aligned under buff.


Yes, this.  All of this.  And just to add another thing, a major failing of N scale couplers is that buff pushes the knuckles apart instead of pushing them together like on the prototype.  Very much appreciate what you're saying here and hope the performance benefits you describe would bear true with your couplers on what I want to run.

Quote
I’m sure the number one question everyone is asking is “When will these be available!?” At this point, I’m actively exploring multiple avenues with respect to bringing these to market. I’m keeping all options on the table at this point. I respect that for something as crucial as a coupler, a long-term reliable supply is imperative. I can assure you - these will be coming to market!

Andrew

 :) :) :)

w neal

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1434
  • Respect: +483
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #76 on: June 26, 2022, 02:26:15 PM »
0
Can we see a movie of some of these couplers installed on some Athearn cars?
Buffering...

wmcbride

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 502
  • Respect: +81
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2022, 11:44:51 AM »
+1
I find it amusing that after decades of complaining about too much slack and slinky effect, now people are not happy with a lack of slack.
I have not really been paying much attention, but do the other "slinkless" couplers (like McHenry, Accumate, etc.) have slack?  And where is the slack?  At the coupler shank's pivot point, or the slack is in the coupler head itself (or in both places)?

As I close in on 45 years as an active N-Scaler, I have a long-developed allergy to the slinky effect. I have treated that allergy with unimates, TSC, etc.

Peteski has a valid point (as usual). I have watched the videos of this new coupler and I am impressed -- with the ease of coupling, appearance, and running.

I understand why some of you want to see slack in your operation.

What I would like (and it's just my 2 cents) is this coupler (great appearance, excellent coupling, no slinky) with compatability / ease of replacement into existing  rolling stock (things manufactured over the past 1-2 decades). I could care less about slack but I am only one voice.


Bill McBride

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 8887
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +4712
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2022, 01:41:53 PM »
+1
The couplers do look great.  But in modeling motive power changes in New Haven, I absolutely must have magnetic uncoupling.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


sirenwerks

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5847
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +380
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2022, 12:08:13 AM »
+1
The couplers do look great.  But in modeling motive power changes in New Haven, I absolutely must have magnetic uncoupling.


I was wondering about this myself, whether magnetic coupling is/not a feature.  I'm not married to it, but I like having the option of hands-free un/coupling.  And I am in design of several layout components (read: modules) now and want to know if it should be a future thought.  Some of the industry track placements.  As a modeler interested in prototypical modeling of industry and switching ops, Warehouse flats that you pull a boxcar up to is one thing, but I am interested in modeling industries and car spotting that propose tight sight/hand clearances, and magnetic coupling solves the problem of ham-fisted operators with pointy sticks versus the spider web of wires and pipes and structural elements some industries might weave.
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 32924
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +5323
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2022, 12:14:03 AM »
0
For magnetic uncoupling I hope that Protomates become reality someday.
. . . 42 . . .

MRLX1020

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +43
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2022, 01:09:00 PM »
+1
Aside from the type E head shown here, are there plans to offer a type F, H or E with upper/lower shelfs?

Some nice tightlock couplers for passenger and appropriate freight equipment would be exciting!

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2264
  • Respect: +973
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2022, 02:59:11 PM »
+6
I'll take no slack, even though it means changing the couplers on 400+ freight cars.

The MT slack is a frustration when doing slow speed switching moves.  I've learned to ignore it, but it really is bothersome.  A great-looking, great-operating, no-slack coupler would be absolutely great from my perspective.

John C.

MetroRedLine

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 580
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +170
    • Union Pacific Vallealmar Subdivision (Facebook Page)
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2022, 08:00:49 PM »
+1
I'll take no slack, even though it means changing the couplers on 400+ freight cars.

The MT slack is a frustration when doing slow speed switching moves.  I've learned to ignore it, but it really is bothersome.  A great-looking, great-operating, no-slack coupler would be absolutely great from my perspective.

John C.

Slack IS prototypical after all, but I do agree that the magnitude of slack on MTL couplers is quite a bit exaggerated, especially when the rear car goes herky-jerky. But is it possible to engineer an N scale coupler with a more subtle slack?
Under the streets of Los Angeles

Cajonpassfan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5393
  • Respect: +1961
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2022, 09:37:09 PM »
+1
It's been said before: slack I can live with, or without. The slinky, not so much (with). This coupler looks promising, but the prospect of converting everything leaves me cold, I'd rather spend my time doing modeling....still, kudos  due...
Otto K.

ednadolski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4809
  • Respect: +1756
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2022, 02:59:34 PM »
+7
I've recently tried out a few of these demo couplers from Andrew (thanks @turbowhiz !)  and I have to say that I am quite impressed with how smoothly they couple and uncouple.  The coupling force is very low and has little to no tendency to push away the target car.  IMHO they operate about as well as anyone could ask for an N-scale coupler (rivaling even a well-tuned set of Sergent couplers in HO scale, or the Protocraft couplers in O/P:48, and significantly better than the LEZs).  And of course, no slinky action at all. ;)

Here is a quick pic of what they look like. The MTL coupler from an MTL TBOX is on the left, and the N-Possible coupler (with its coupler box) is on the right.   The size difference is dramatic, and the air hose on the NPC box is really nicely done:
 
<sorry, image misplaced or lost>


Installation of these in the MTL TBOXes was as simple a swap as you could want, and I did not make any other modifications to the OOTB car.   Here is a video of the coupling action.  I used a machinist scribe as an uncoupling pick:




My hand was a little bit unsteady with the pick, since I had to reach a bit around the camera.   These are very close to scale size, so you do want some good light, and not too much of a reach (as would be the case for any coupler so close to scale size).  If you look really closely, you can see just a small bit of slack, so it is not a truly zero-slack condition.  (To some degree, I think that any expectations regarding slack are a function of what we have all become used to seeing, after many years of using traditional/legacy couplers.)

Looking forward to seeing more of these!   8)


Edit: after reviewing the video, I notice that YouTube has a tendency to impart a slight jitter on some of the car movements.  But that is a YouTube thing, it is not in the video as i originally shot it on my phone camera.   Just mentioning it, so that folks don't get the mistaken impression that is how the cars were actually moving.


Ed

Edit: fixed youtubbe link
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 07:29:59 PM by ednadolski »

Scottl

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4841
  • Respect: +1514
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #86 on: July 04, 2022, 03:10:57 PM »
+1
That is compelling.  The only downside I see is from the side view there is a gap between the two coupler shafts.  This is very minor, and the operational properties and good looks (and lack of slinky) get top marks from me.

Thanks for the video.

ednadolski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4809
  • Respect: +1756
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2022, 03:19:28 PM »
0
The only downside I see is from the side view there is a gap between the two coupler shafts.

True, but that is only visible because the camera lens is at exactly the same level -- in person you don't see it at all.

Ed

w neal

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1434
  • Respect: +483
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #88 on: July 04, 2022, 03:58:30 PM »
0
Can someone display mounting them using Athearn cars? We need to see a variety of cars with these running together. I'm picking on Athearn as they are beautiful cars, with crappy couplers.
Buffering...

Mark5

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11024
  • Always with the negative waves Moriarty ...
  • Respect: +599
Re: N-Possible Coupler Announcement (Nashville 2022)
« Reply #89 on: July 04, 2022, 04:28:08 PM »
+1
Here is a quick pic of what they look like. The MTL coupler from an MTL TBOX is on the left, and the N-Possible coupler (with its coupler box) is on the right.   The size difference is dramatic, and the air hose on the NPC box is really nicely done <snip>

If you look really closely, you can see just a small bit of slack, so it is not a truly zero-slack condition.  (To some degree, I think that any expectations regarding slack are a function of what we have all become used to seeing, after many years of using traditional/legacy couplers.)

Thanks Ed! Great pix and such. Personally, my expectations in terms of "slack" come from watching 1:1 trains for many years.  ;)



Edit: after reviewing the video, I notice that YouTube has a tendency to impart a slight jitter on some of the car movements.  But that is a YouTube thing, it is not in the video as i originally shot it on my phone camera.   Just mentioning it, so that folks don't get the mistaken impression that is how the cars were actually moving.


Yeah, I have come to expect that "jitter" from YouTube (so disappointing  :facepalm:).

Looking forward to sampling these myself someday.

Mark