Walther Proto E8s Question

[eja]

Can someone tell me the linage of the Walthers-Proto Series N Scale EMD E8 A/B Sets?

I am fairly sure they bought the tooling from someone else but I don't remember who and I do not see them on Spookshow's page either.


Thanks .....

[CBQ Fan]

They were Life-Like before. Not sure if Atlas has them now.

[spookshow]

The last production run of E8's was in 2004 and came in Walthers packaging (and with only a small mention of Life-Like on the box). Back then it was common knowledge that these were ex-LL models, but I should probably note that in my encyclopedia now.

-Mark

[thomasjmdavis]

At some point, either near the end of Life Like production, or with the Walthers acquisition, there was a major upgrade of the frame.  So, the frame in the Walthers is a metal split frame (not DCC without some work ala an old Kato), as opposed to the plastic frame with big lumpy weights of the early Life Like production.  See Spookshow's review here-
 http://www.spookshow.net/loco/lle678.html

I just re-read the review.  I had not realized that the light flicker on mine was apparently intentional and supposed to represent a mars light.  It is one of the units slated to be converted to DCC (nothing fancy, just a DZ-123), which I figure will probably solve the issue.

I have Erie units from both runs, and at least on those units, the paint on the Walthers (which I bought as "new" on eBay, but I think this is the factory paint job, and not a custom job) is MUCH better than my Life Like units.  I could nitpick over the shade of light green (not gray enough) but no two manufacturers have ever used the same light green, so I'm used to variations. The lettering is much better, includes the "radio equipped" below the cab window and is crisper overall.

That said, I have a lot of the older Life-Likes in various roadnames, and while they look like poorly made Rivarossi's on the inside, they all run like champs after 25 years. 

[Mark5]

The last production run of E8's was in 2004 and came in Walthers packaging (and with only a small mention of Life-Like on the box). Back then it was common knowledge that these were ex-LL models, but I should probably note that in my encyclopedia now.

-Mark

Minor thing, Walthers did not acquire Lifelike until summer of 2005.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2005/07/25/daily51.html

Caveat Emptor on these E8s though - they have possible the most horrendous rendition of the famous EMD "bulldog" nose that has ever been done in N scale.

Mark

[nickelplate759]

Also be aware that the way the body mounts to the frame is different from the earlier lead-sled chassis version.  The new bodies will fit the old chassis, but the old bodies will not fit the new chassis without modification (of the body, the chassis or both).

[spookshow]

I think there must've been at least one production run after 2004, so maybe some had Walthers packaging and some didn't?

-Mark

[GhengisKong]

Did the E6 or 7 get split metal chassis?

[learmoia]

Did the E6 or 7 get split metal chassis?

Yes.. I believe so..

Although the E8B was new to Walthers correct?

[thomasjmdavis]

Yes.. I believe so..

Although the E8B was new to Walthers correct?

Not to be argumentative (well, ok, to be argumentative), I think you're incorrect about the E6 and 7 having the metal chassis, as built.

While the E6s did not come along until 2000, they still had the old style chassis.  The E7s were produced in the late 90s. also on the early chassis. Neither the E6 or E7 were produced after 2000, or under the Walthers label. The new metal chassis was introduced in 2004 (per Spookshow's site) .

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/lle678.html

 I'm not sure if any of the split frame E8s were sold in Life Like packaging prior to the Walthers acquisition (or maybe sold by Walthers in Life Like packaging shortly after the acquisition).  The one I have has Walthers name and address on the back of the box, and a logo on the side with "LL" "Hobby Quality" and "Proto N" on the logo, in that order, top to bottom.

I was a bit surprised to find out you are correct on the E8B.  The one I have came on a dummy chassis along with 2 old style A units.  My best guess is that someone bought new units, and swapped bodies, then I got them on Ebay (no boxes).

Shell swapping has led to there being E6s and E7s on new chassis, or on Kato chassis.  So there are, indeed, models of all the various Es riding on the newer chassis, but only the "Walthers" or "Walthers/LL" or "Proto1000" (depending on packaging?) were originally made with the split frame chassis.

[learmoia]

I could have sworn that the E6 and 7 got a Walthers Rerun in the same time frame as the E8A/B
I'll check Wednesday... Caboose Stop still has a bunch of 6s and 8s

The DL109 did (and maybe thats what I'm thinking of)... and I think the FAs did as well..

I don't think the Erie's did... and I don't think the PAs did either.

The 'new' GP38-2s got a couple of runs as well as the SW1200s and GP20s

I always  'd at Life Like/Walthers, that they would go to the effort to design and tool an E8B.. but couldn't make the effort to fix the E8 Nose even though they did the E7A correctly...

~Ian

[spookshow]

E6's and E7's were never sold with the split-frame chassis.

-Mark

[keeper]

The DL109 did (and maybe thats what I'm thinking of)... and I think the FAs did as well..

I don't think the Erie's did... and I don't think the PAs did either.

The Eries, PA/PBs have the split frame, well at least the ones I have.

Thomas 

[thomasjmdavis]

The PAs were produced both ways (I have a couple with the original plastic chassis that is similar to the original E8 chassis). The PAs were nice units - good shell, correct length, front coupler is mounted to the body, and the trucks are the right size.  Which make it an improvement on the venerable Con-Cor version, although the Con-Cor chassis (2nd version, IIRC) was metal.

It is also worth noting that all the Life-Like units I have that were produced after the original run of E8s, have better paint jobs than the early E8s in my collection. 

One upside to the plastic chassis/soft metal weight frame is that they are very easy to modify to fit aftermarket shells.  I have a couple of JnJ Erie Built shells riding on slightly modified LL PA chassis.  Now, if I could only find a JnJ Erie B unit shell....

[Mark5]

I think there must've been at least one production run after 2004, so maybe some had Walthers packaging and some didn't?

-Mark

I'm no expert, but this on the Trovestar site seems consistent with my (hazy) memory:

The model was completely revised in 2003 and supplemented by a powered E8B. It was re-run again in 2006 (after Walthers acquired Life-Like); it was sold either as single A-unit or as A+B set, both powered.

https://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=184613

Mark