Is This Too Much Lube?

[oakcreekco]

How does this look to you folks?

[greenwizard88]

It's too much in the sense that there's extra just sitting there. And since you've opened it up, you may as well as remove some of the excess.

But in general, I don't think that amount of lube is excessive. That's what probably a good portion of my diesels look like from the factory, and they don't give me any running problems. Usually if I have to open the engine up, it's because there isn't enough oil or lube somewhere. Having said that, if I had the engine open to work on it like you do, I'd just push some of the excess lube that's there back into the gears, rather than remove and re-lube it.

[SkipGear]

Yes!

I clean all the grease out.  Put a drop of either electrolube or labelle 108 on each bearing block and the motor bearings. Also a drop on the truck gears and that is it. On really worn stuff, I may add a drop of Labelle 102 to the worm gear.

[peteski]

I agree that less is more when it comes to lubricating our tiny models.  Excessive lube attracts dust, grime, and stray pieces of ballast which get jammed between gear teeth.  Ask me how I know.    And yes, most locos are overlubricated at the factory.  Early Kato locos were sparingly lubricated (which was a good thing), but nowadays even Kato uses too much lube.

I often let the slippery plastic gears in the trucks run dry. That plastic has very low friction coefficient (some call it self-lubricating).  I only lubricate (using light oil) the motor and worm shaft bearings, and put small amount of grease on the worm).  Sometimes I also pit a tiny bit of grease on the truck pivot areas.  That's it.

EDIT: and on low-friction trucks I also moisten (yes, just moisten) the axle end bearing cups with some medium viscosity oil.  I just place an oil moistened Microbrush in each cup (yes the truck needs to be disassembled for this, but I do that anyway for cleaning it.
On inside-bearing trucks I also sparingly apply oil to the axle bearing surfaces.

Another example of too much grease applied at the factory: Arnold SW1 worms and universals.

[oakcreekco]

A few bonus items on this one. Same batch/run.


Made me shake my head a little.  😆

[peteski]

Not surprising at all.  It seems most assemblers in the factory think that more lube is better.  That electric pickup strip also looks a bit mangled.

[brokemoto]

It is too much.  Excessive lubrication gives you the benefits that @peteski has pointed out to us.  Further, it hampers electrical conductivity which results in stalls and all sorts of other miseries.

I have had it happen on numerous models, except for Atlas or Kato.

I was having a stalling problem with Intermountain F-units.  In keeping with their top drawer customer service, IM and I had a back and forth going in an effort to determine the problem.  Finally, I opened up one and found the culprit:  too much grease.  I cleaned up everything, put a small bit of LaBelle 106 in the appropriate places and everything was fine.  The official at IM thanked me for my time then informed me that he has a scheduled trip to China in about a week.  He assured me that the factory superintendents would be receiving a proper blessing-out for overgreasing.

When the directions on the product say one drop or one very small dab, that is just what they mean.

[oakcreekco]

Not surprising at all.  It seems most assemblers in the factory think that more lube is better.  That electric pickup strip also looks a bit mangled.

Yes the strip is mangled. Guess if there's too much resistance pressing on the fuel tank, push HARDER! 😆

Notice the small piece of contact strip by the worm gear?  Another head shaker.

[peteski]

Yes the strip is mangled. Guess if there's too much resistance pressing on the fuel tank, push HARDER! 😆

Notice the small piece of contact strip by the worm gear?  Another head shaker.

I did notice. Yes, the quality control at its best.  Hey, but it is a perfect example of stuff sticking to the excessive lubricant. 
Is this a recently produced model, or it was purchased some time ago?

[oakcreekco]

IIRC, I purchased these three units around '14 - '15. I think it was the first run of these locos.

One of those situations when I got them home, I tested them a few feet in each direction and they ran. Then put them away as life was interfering with model rr time.

Fast forward to this week, got them out, admired the looks, then noticed lube on several gears on the bottom of the trucks. Put them on the rails and one spit and spuddered and kept stalling and the other two ran at wildly different speeds.

Bench time and opened them up to find all of this good stuff! 😆

This is all on me. Purchased new from my favorite shop, quick mini test, and put them on my storage shelf.

I can't and don't expect the manufacturer to do anything after this amount of time has passed. A quality issue at the time of production and assembly, but it needed to be addressed by me, shortly after the purchase, not years later.

A lesson learned. I'll know late today how they run. Got to finish up reassembly.

[peteski]

I was simply curious as to how new were these models.  I would not really expect that the manufacturer would take them back due to excessive lube (after all they still work, and the extra lube is good, and no extra charge for it, right?  )

I have several examples of older (overlubed)models, mostly Atlas, stored in the jewel boxes where over time the lubricant has oozed out of the mechanism and onto the outside of the shell, or even the foam nest. 

I have also  services some (again usually Atlas) locos where the excessive lube turned yellow and hardened into an amber beeswax-like stuff.  It actually had to be picked out with a toothpick.

I wish manufacturers would instruct their assembly line workers to use less lubricant.

[JMaurer1]

If you have to ask, then it is too much. Less is more in the long run.

[oakcreekco]

Yes!

I clean all the grease out.  Put a drop of either electrolube or labelle 108 on each bearing block and the motor bearings. Also a drop on the truck gears and that is it. On really worn stuff, I may add a drop of Labelle 102 to the worm gear.

That's been my habit for over 25 years too.

Before I started going through my "herd," I purchased a new LaBelle 3 pack direct from LaBelle. My old Labelle was very old, like maybe 20 years or more.

Like you, once the chass is properly cleaned, one drop of 108 on each bearing block and motor bearins. One drop of 102 on the worm gear itself.

I dont lube trucks at all. Only the large gear of the double gear will see the 102 from the worm.

I've always had good results with the "less is more" approach.

[oakcreekco]

Took longer than expected, but got 2 of the 3 on the rails at noon today. Giving them my traditional 12 hour "maiden run" of pulling cars and getting them broke in.

So far, so good. Nice running at all speeds, pulling 22 Red Caboose insulated reefers. No glitches at all so far.

Now the 3rd unit is being a real PITA. There was grease all over the circuit board too (to help assembly I'm sure) and it looks like some grease got into the motor.

The motor hesitates, stalls, then goes back to speed for a bit, then acts up again. I've got it running now off track with a 9v battery to see if some of whatever works it way out.

I've probably put 8-9 hours into working on these, but the two that are on track running, are performing very well.

I did my usual for cleaning. Complete disassembly of chassis and each truck.

Tooth brush, warm soapy water scrub, rinse, blow dry and reassembled.

All three units had extremely corroded contacts. The truck wipers, motor contacts from the circuit board,  and motor contacts from the brushes were the same. Almost black.

I've had the same on a few batches of Atlas units, but never a Kato. I'm guessing material grade/quality could be the cause.

Went ahead and polished everything up and reassembled.

Really pleased with the two units that are now running, and the 3rd unitcon the 9v battery is still acting up. Never ran in to this issue before. Grrrrr.

[peteski]

In my experience warm water and soaps/dishwashing detergents just don't cut it.  It is sufficient for cleaning the loco's shell, but a stronger degreaser is needed for the mechanical parts.  Since all those part are made from pretty robust (unaffected by mild solvents) plastic or metal, my preferred degreaser is Naphtha. I get is in a gallon size can from the hardware store (called VM&P Naphtha), but Ronsonol lighter fluid is the same stuff (but much more expensive).  As an alternate degreaser I use 99% IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol, also in gallon cans from hardware store).  (91% Rubbing alcohol also works, but I prefer the stronger solution.

Of course the standard warning to be careful around these is in order. Both are flammable liquids, but are the best for the job.

Grease in the open-frame motor (like Atlas or Kato) can cause problems.  If I have a problematic motor, I just dunk it in my ultrasonic cleaner filled with Naphtha. That does a great job or removing the oil, grease and powdered brush material.  Naphtha will not cause any rusting of the armature.  I then use compressed air to blow all the remaining solvent out of the motor and let is sit for couple of hours to make sure all the solvent evaporates. Actually I sometimes cheat and put the motor in a food dehydrator (I use in my hobbies) to speed up the  drying process.  Next I make sure to sparingly oil both bearings as the cleaning process removed the oil in them.

After this cleaning/lubrication the motor is like new.