Dullcote - what kind of paint is it?

[nkalanaga]

Testor's Dullcote has been in several topics lately, so here's another one.  Three pictures, showing the three sections of printing on the label.  The can on the left was bought at my "local" hobby shop on January 8, 2022.  The one on the right was bought today, Feb 12, at the same shop, from the same rack, at the same price.

[bbussey]

It’s a clear lacquer. Always has been.

[peteski]

Yes, the hobby paint terminology is often misused or incorrect.  Enamel, lacquer, acrylic . . . I go by smell.  Seems that even Testors/Rustoleum/RPM people got confused (or just sloppy).
But Dull- and Gloss-cote have always been lacquers.  They harden by solvent evaporation (lacquers), not by evaporation first, then chemical reaction (enamels).

[Chris333]

And that is why you can put your grubby little hands all over your models 10 minutes after you spray them. I love me some lacquer primer.

[nkalanaga]

I was sure it had always been a lacquer, and the can of Glosscote I bought last month still says lacquer.  But with all of the other changes in paints over the last few years, I could see them changing Dullcote.  Then, this month, he had a new batch, and it's back to lacquer.

If nothing else, that's VERY poor quality control, if they can print, apply, and ship an incorrect label, without anyone at the factory noticing.  Especially since someone had to change the artwork for the label to do it, not just labeling it for the wrong content!

Chris333:  Fast-drying lacquers are nice, but I've had some very strange results mixing lacquers and enamels.  Spraying some enamels over lacquer just doesn't work.

[peteski]

If nothing else, that's VERY poor quality control, if they can print, apply, and ship an incorrect label, without anyone at the factory noticing.  Especially since someone had to change the artwork for the label to do it, not just labeling it for the wrong content!

Ineptitude is rampant in today's world.  One would think that with all the computer technology being used everywhere, there would be fewer screw-ups, but it seems to be just the opposite.

[Chris333]

Emamel and acrylic seem to be interchangeable anymore.

[peteski]

Emamel and acrylic seem to be interchangeable anymore.

Colloquially the term "acrylic" is used by most hobbyists for describing water-based enamels.  But  there are also many organic-solvent-based (stinky) acrylic enamels and even acrylic lacquers.  Paint chemistry is really not very well understood by majority of hobbyists.  And knowing paint properties is an mportain part of the painting process, especially when mixing/matching types or brands of paints.

[muktown128]

A quick paint primer (pun intended) from a chemist who has worked for paint company for over 30 years...

Oil or solvent based lacquers dry by solvent evaporation and can be based on different resins like nitrocellulose (NC), cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB), acrylic or acrylic modified nitrocellulose 

Oil or solvent based enamels dry by solvent evaporation, but also have some chemical cure through cross-linking.  Enamels are typically based on alkyd resins and can be modified with acrylic resins to provide improved early hardness or "lacquer like" dry.  Alkyds contain carbon - carbon double bonds (unsaturation) which is where the cross-linking occurs.

Scott

[thomasjmdavis]

Colloquially the term "acrylic" is used by most hobbyists for describing water-based enamels.  But  there are also many organic-solvent-based (stinky) acrylic enamels and even acrylic lacquers.  Paint chemistry is really not very well understood by majority of hobbyists.  And knowing paint properties is an mportain part of the painting process, especially when mixing/matching types or brands of paints.

Well, in the old days, the distinction between enamels, lacquers, and acrylics had to do with the coating itself, after it dried, not the liquid carrier/solvent it was floating around in.  There were also suspension paints in which pigment was suspended in some sort of liquid.  In the scene shop, we used to make our own from dyes and/or ground pigments and watered down hide glue, or with casein (which was originally a by product of dairy processing).

In the modern world, while we do often assume acrylics are water based or water borne, Tru-color, if I understand correctly from their literature, is a solvent based acrylic.  While in my furniture making days, I used lacquer and polyurethane products that were water borne.  And things have been further confused by the paint industry calling hard shell, more durable, water borne paints "acrylic enamel" or "latex enamel"- although there is not much I can find in reading labels to indicate they have much, if any, actual enamel coating.

[peteski]

Well, in the old days, the distinction between enamels, lacquers, and acrylics had to do with the coating itself, after it dried, not the liquid carrier/solvent it was floating around in.  There were also suspension paints in which pigment was suspended in some sort of liquid.  In the scene shop, we used to make our own from dyes and/or ground pigments and watered down hide glue, or with casein (which was originally a by product of dairy processing).

In the modern world, while we do often assume acrylics are water based or water borne, Tru-color, if I understand correctly from their literature, is a solvent based acrylic.  While in my furniture making days, I used lacquer and polyurethane products that were water borne.  And things have been further confused by the paint industry calling hard shell, more durable, water borne paints "acrylic enamel" or "latex enamel"- although there is not much I can find in reading labels to indicate they have much, if any, actual enamel coating.

Thanks Tom and Scott.  While I'm not a chemist, I brushed up on paint chemistry and I understand things enough for my hobbies,. I am aware of solvents, binders, pigments, and vehicle. But as shown here, even the manufacturers of hobby paints don't seem to care what they put on a label.

[Maletrain]

Thanks Tom and Scott.  While I'm not a chemist, I brushed up on paint chemistry and I understand things enough for my hobbies,. I am aware of solvents, binders, pigments, and vehicle. But as shown here, even the manufacturers of hobby paints don't seem to care what they put on a label.

And therein lies the problem.  With companies buying each other and using the same product names for reformulated products made by new production companies "in China", it is impossible to know what you will get when you order on-line from someplace like Amazon or on-line hobby shops.  Now that they can't even put the correct description on new labels for established products, the whole thing is a crap shoot.  Like big industries, we hobbyists are now in the business of doing quality testing for each lot of a product we buy - but our "lots" are typically one jar, not tens of thousands.

It was nice when you could rely on established companies to consistently make established products with established reputations for quality, maybe with known issues that had well-developed work-arounds.  Today, you need to test everything you get before doing anything that is "mission critical" with it.

(Clouds, are you listening?)

[JMaurer1]

I still miss Floquil... 

[graffen]

As they have altered the recipe for the umpteenth time, and Dullcote now is not nearly as matte as it used to be, I have been experimenting with alternatives.
Krylon, even though it's rather flat, and dries quick, it can cause crazing.
Tamiya flat clear is good, but gets expensive to use....
As it happened, I had bought a couple of cans of window frost spray.
When I used it on a window the smell reminded me of Dullcote....
I tried it on a painted model and it is really dead flat!
It is a good alternative to the original Dullcote. It even blooms the same way if applied to heavy.... 

[peteski]

As it happened, I had bought a couple of cans of window frost spray.
When I used it on a window the smell reminded me of Dullcote....

Could you give some more specific info?