Author Topic: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?  (Read 5942 times)

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wazzou

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2022, 10:17:11 PM »
+1
…and waiting a month to see if your design is successful is great too, I guess.
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bbussey

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2022, 01:08:03 AM »
0
I stand by my Shapeways comments.  With the reduction gear, which was a good success at the Springfield show, I've had commercial products rendered in both methods.

  • A 40' N scale gondola is a lot less than 100mm and there were issues regarding consistency when printing in quantity and/or on multiple orders.
  • I hate having to remove the layer and/or printhead path lines on FXD parts.  My RBB&B radar wagons took forever to get the anomalies out of the sides and ends.  Same with the donniker wagons.  Meanwhile, the Mack LJ cabs with their contoured surfaces rendered perfectly in SLA.
  • I've acknowledged that small parts work very well in FXD (provided you can work with the orientation issues.  N scale vehicle wheels render especially well, although they look equally good via SLA.

You're comfortable with FXD, that's fine.  But you had issues with that medium when you first started as well.  I'm happy with the results I've gotten so far, and I'm still learning.  But SLA results are far superior to FXD.  Some of the products that experienced people are making, such as the Briggs models, are outstanding.  It's just a matter of getting used to a new process, and being open to following what others have successfully done.
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Chris333

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2022, 02:43:13 AM »
0
I was told about this place a few months back, but never uploaded anything. I guess it would sort of work like Shapeways, but with our type of resin printers.
https://3dptrain.com/

Lemosteam

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2022, 06:06:10 AM »
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Well, to my non-commercial self I still think the SLA printed objects have better surface finish.  As a customer I would prefer not to have to go through the FUD cleaning hoops.
 
Nowhere in my post I mentioned or even implied that you are complaining too much about anything, regardless whether this is your thread or not.

Oh resin prints are WONDERFUL on the outside.  Its the nitty gritty of the inside fitment issues that no one seems to discuss.  It's like OOOH, that a pretty shell. What's it look like on the inside and how does it mate to other things?  When folks first started, I sent a very simple design to someone here that they printed and sent two samples back to me.  Outside surface was perfect, but the underside and the support removal was a PITA to the point where one sample cracked in half, and the one I did manage to keep intact had a horrible mating surface to the point is was unusable, whereas the FUD version was perfect but for the sanding.

Bryan's membrane idea is brilliant and he is showing that brilliance with every print, but i can assure you that there is ALWAYS one nasty side, that points to the build plate and the supports.

Pete, I know, I just realize I WAS complaining.  That's all.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 08:41:55 AM by Lemosteam »

Lemosteam

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2022, 06:21:28 AM »
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I stand by my Shapeways comments.  With the reduction gear, which was a good success at the Springfield show, I've had commercial products rendered in both methods.

  • A 40' N scale gondola is a lot less than 100mm and there were issues regarding consistency when printing in quantity and/or on multiple orders.
  • I hate having to remove the layer and/or printhead path lines on FXD parts.  My RBB&B radar wagons took forever to get the anomalies out of the sides and ends.  Same with the donniker wagons.  Meanwhile, the Mack LJ cabs with their contoured surfaces rendered perfectly in SLA.
  • I've acknowledged that small parts work very well in FXD (provided you can work with the orientation issues.  N scale vehicle wheels render especially well, although they look equally good via SLA.

You're comfortable with FXD, that's fine.  But you had issues with that medium when you first started as well.  I'm happy with the results I've gotten so far, and I'm still learning.  But SLA results are far superior to FXD.  Some of the products that experienced people are making, such as the Briggs models, are outstanding.  It's just a matter of getting used to a new process, and being open to following what others have successfully done.

Bryan, I am certainly not questioning your integrity, brilliance or experience, and I am not making the case for FUD.  I would love to see an SLA rendering of your short side gondola- with all parts identical to your original design, save for the supports.

I am still learning very much here too and I am trying to create designs that can be (repeatably) kitted for a small market and sold to customers off the build plate. Just because I don't follow someone's advice here, does not mean that the advice is less brilliant. 

Just following my own path- and as you will soon see I am getting extremely close, in fact, the K7 has many unique challenges that are being overcome, and I would NEVER print this thing in FUD, except for the fitment issues which can be overcome with good design to accommodate the SLA printing, er, uniqueness'.

Lemosteam

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2022, 06:41:17 AM »
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…and waiting a month to see if your design is successful is great too, I guess.

Agreed, if you can work around the support issue I am having, this has been great for testing fitment within hours.

John

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2022, 07:16:29 AM »
+2
John - I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest since I've had some of the same frustrations - I admire your desire for perfection ..

I think SLA printing using "hobby quality" printers fills a niche for us - especially with detail parts and the like - I can print 20 small fire hydrants I need for the layout in one pass - or a bunch of Hayes bumping posts for a fraction of what they cost ( $8 ) at Walthers - I will probably never recoup the sunk cost of my two mono printers (long story on why I have 2)

My York tower project was a pain in the  :ashat: to get the process right .. I have a pile of rejects that I couldn't use - either broken taking the supports off the piece, or not supporting something sufficiently, which didn't show up until the end of an 8 hour print .. In one case, I was printing the main body of the model, I forgot to fill the vat with more resin .. I should have saved it because it looked like a tower being torn down :)

I'm seeing a lot of good inspiration over on the N3D Facebook Group -- some of the models being displayed are fantastic .. It's going to take some more advances in the low end tech to get us closer to injection quality ..

You make good stuff for the hobby - you will figure it out ..

JB

wazzou

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2022, 12:13:36 PM »
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...Some of the products that experienced people are making, such as the Briggs models, are outstanding. 


Good example.  He sells a lot of kits that require pretty tight tolerances for fitment.
I've got a couple in the pile but Tim Horton and others have assembled a number of his kits.
Bryan

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bbussey

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2022, 02:17:42 PM »
+1
What's it look like on the inside and how does it mate to other things?  When folks first started, I sent a very simple design to someone here that they printed and sent two samples back to me.  Outside surface was perfect, but the underside and the support removal was a PITA to the point where one sample cracked in half, and the one I did manage to keep intact had a horrible mating surface to the point is was unusable, whereas the FUD version was perfect but for the sanding ...

John, if all of the outside visible surfaces are fine, and the inside faces are not, I don't see a problem.  On your K7, you're designing it with a separate roof that snaps to the body.  Why?  I'd rather have those two components be one piece along with the floor, which you can do with SLA.  Make the ends snap into the body instead of the roof and print the ends upright or upside-down to minimize the area facing the build plate.  Or build the ends at an angle

Or, if you want the roof as a separate component and keep the ends/body/floor as one component, print the body upside down and print the roof vertically on the end-edge.  No one will care what the inside of the car floor looks like, and printing the roof vertically will insure your locking tabs, underside and top outer surface are smooth.

Yes, I've figured out the idiosyncrasies of dealing with FXD from having worked with it for years and have had a lot of success with it.  But even with my limited exposure to SLA, it's clear to me that it is the far better medium.  Better quality, lower costs, more flexibility.

I'm having abolutely NO issues printing stockcar slats.  This printed correctly on the first shot.  The ends I had to reprint only because I forgot to include a vent for the resin to escape as I had the ends back-to-back with a membrane connecting the two along the entire perimeter.




You can't print clear glass insets in FXD.
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bbussey

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM »
0
I can't print the LSG as is in SLA.  The car body would have to be rotated vertically and the ends moved from above the body to the side.  They still can print vertically as originally positioned.  They would stay upright, as there are tie-down brackets on the chord top.

I printed the first SLA G36 upright the first week I got the machine, but next time I will remove the ends and print it vertically.  The G32B is designed for FXD and with the ASF A-3 trucks finally coming from Atlas/Affa I probably will stay with that.  But any gons from this point forward, whether for ESM kits or personal use, will be printed vertically via SLA.
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bbussey

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2022, 02:37:34 PM »
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Btw, ESM is selling the reduction gears with the build supports still in place.  First, the modeler who is skilled enough to build a craftsman kit should be skilled enough to remove them.  Two, they help keep the small protruding details from breaking.  No one complained in Springfield that they had to remove build supports, and there are a ton on the reduction gear.
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Lemosteam

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2022, 03:34:03 PM »
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John, if all of the outside visible surfaces are fine, and the inside faces are not, I don't see a problem.  On your K7, you're designing it with a separate roof that snaps to the body.  Why?  I'd rather have those two components be one piece along with the floor, which you can do with SLA.  Make the ends snap into the body instead of the roof and print the ends upright or upside-down to minimize the area facing the build plate.  Or build the ends at an angle

C'mon, you've built models, you know when parts don't fit or they are sloppy or undulated, or a sprue attaches to a part right were it shouldn't be, or a seam is still visible after paint, it's just not good enough for me.  As you know this roof has a full overhang with rivet detail so if I add it to the shell I have no way to support the overhangs. Tried the chassis with the walls vertical and and at an angle, one end is always messed up so if I print the ends separately there will be a nasty seam on the roof that will never match.

Or, if you want the roof as a separate component and keep the ends/body/floor as one component, print the body upside down and print the roof vertically on the end-edge.  No one will care what the inside of the car floor looks like, and printing the roof vertically will insure your locking tabs, underside and top outer surface are smooth.

I tried the roof vertical, tapers on the sheeting made nasty striations, end overhang (visble on the model) was a mess.  Detents fill with resin (even at 2 seconds).  Printed the body upside down the first time and the angled ends would not match the underside of the roof.

Yes, I've figured out the idiosyncrasies of dealing with FXD from having worked with it for years and have had a lot of success with it.  But even with my limited exposure to SLA, it's clear to me that it is the far better medium.  Better quality, lower costs, more flexibility.  Agree, agree, disagree. SLA FORCES you to design for the printing, not for the model.  Even with FUD, I chose an orientation for the part and stayed with it.

I'm having absolutely NO issues printing stockcar slats.  This printed correctly on the first shot.  The ends I had to reprint only because I forgot to include a vent for the resin to escape as I had the ends back-to-back with a membrane connecting the two along the entire perimeter.

Ok as soon as I print vertical all the issues above become present for me.  Your openings appear to be wider than mine, mine are prototypical, or I lose board count.  I am almost there printing the boards horizontally and the wire supports inside support no more than a 3mm horizontal surface which is well within support needs (I feel it is the over-exposure).  May try the shell at 30 degrees like I did the roof to see if that improves. Still have to print at sub 2 second exposure.  Last one was at 3.

You can't print clear glass insets in FXD. Still not sure if you can do it in SLA either. :trollface:

Yes, I think I can sell the kits with supports too- they just won't look like the forest anymore.

What I meant with the LSG, was try printing that, in whatever orientation you want in SLA without changing the original design of the parts, and then try to check fits.


Lemosteam

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2022, 04:14:16 PM »
+1
So here is where I Stan, with just a couple more experiments.

This is the end sill printing file with supports:



After removal from supports, and minor shaving and cleanup, they fit into the chassis, and are glued in place. The brass strip weight is also glued in place. The bolster holes in the chassis require reaming with a spherical engraver of just the right size!



The chassis next to the shell with the roof snapped in place:



Here is an end view of the kit with the chassis in place. It’s a perfect fit inside the shell.



Here is the old assembly (with trucks) and the new assembly (without).

From the side:


From the bottom:



And the end, note the striation on the roof panels from when I printed the roof horizontally. The 30 degree printing is on the right:


« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 04:28:57 PM by Lemosteam »

bbussey

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2022, 04:35:10 PM »
0
You don't have to support the overhand if you build vertically.  It's self-supporting.  As are your separate slats.

Sounds are if you aren't supporting the vertical roof properly, or your curing interval is too high.  My best prints have been the verticals, far better than the 45-degree prints.  The upper and lower chords on the 70' circus flats extend out and there are rivets on all faces, they printed vertically without incident.  The only support was on the face-down end, and that was before I moved to the membrane method.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  FXD forces you to design for the printing as well, whether slicing up the model into components or proper orientation on the XY table (which Shapeways doesn't always honor DESPITE their supposed allowance of the modeler to hard-specify the build orientation, so that negates your orientation argument.)

My openings are prototypical as well.  I'm getting more crisp detail than you are.  It appears to be a resin-related issue more than your curing intervals.  I'd order a bottle of AnyCubic before trying anything further.

I think the clear will work just fine.  I have to finish designing some glass parts before can start trials.

The LSG parts will fit fine, I don't have to check.  Because the ends for the RBB&B stock cars and the ATSF RPO and the NH P-S fluted cars and the Erie boxcar all fit fine, as do the Mack LJ components (cab body, interior, chassis, payload).  And the steering wheel printed perfectly.  You know what didn't fit together perfectly?  The FXD-printed Popcorn wagon and donniker wagons.  They required additional filing before they fit together well enough

On your R7 ends, what is the thickness of those membranes?  I have .2mm from the part extended out 1mm, then I thicken to 1mm to extend down to the base.  The model face closest to the build plane is 6mm away and my raft is 1mm thick.




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Chris333

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Re: So far what is your favorite resin for detail?
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2022, 04:37:12 PM »
+1
Whatever you do. Keep doing it  :D