New n scale unnamed layout design

[nscalemike]

Well, I'm back looking at a new space, new layout, new ideas.  It's been a while, some of you may remember my old CN branch line layout: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31808.msg354907#msg354907.  2017 I think was the last post on it.  That layout has been taken down, that house was sold, a bunch of life changes, and I am slowly settling into a new house that I built over the last 15 months or so.  When this new place was designed I left myself a nice room for a new layout.  It is roughly 40' x 12'.  There is a bigger area near the center, a little smaller on one side, but its much bigger than anything I have had in the past. 

I'm no where close to starting on construction of this.  I still have a few major things to finish on the house and a couple other commitments I need to do first, but in my little free time I have I've been sketching some ideas.  This is where I stand right now:




This is a mixture of freelanced track design and some layout design elements pulled for a few different areas around east central Illinois.  They come from the CN line, UP line, and NS.

Here is a walking tour, starting along the left wall:
-trains appear from staging and enter in a freelanced urban area.  The line will rise to ultimately clear the staging yard under it, and as it curves around to the long wall there is an older industry.  I haven't decided what it will be, but it will have car spots between the two buildings and a spot or two on the front wall also. 
-the line will continue through negative space, typical Illinois scenery until it reaches the first of two major grain elevators.  There is also a passing track here.  This is loosely based on several "smaller" elevators in the area.  Next to the elevator is another industry, either fertilizer or lpg probably. 
-continuing around the bend, the line passes under Interstate 57 and enters the prototype based Tuscola, and the first LDE, and UP trackage.  No industry here, but the UP interchanges with the Decatur and Eastern Illinois in a rather unusual track arrangement.  They pass a large number of cars back and forth almost daily on the short track that connects the two lines, with the DREI heading back out of town to the east, under I-57 and off the layout.  On the other side of town the DREI and UP join trackage just long enough to cross the double CN diamond and a small creek, then the DREI branches back off towards Decatur and off the layout.  There is a CN interchange just before the layout makes the loop.  UP sends several trains through here a day.
-More negative space around the turnback loop and then there is a second grain complex.  There is a grain facility in roughly the same location just outside of Tuscola, but this is a LDE based on a NS location in nearby Sidney, IL.  There is a team track/storage track area just before the elevator, then a large elevator complex with multiple tracks.  There is also a passing track at this location.  This elevator is in the middle of the town, with lots of houses and small shops along the tracks.  There is another small stream, then back into Illinois negative space.
-Finally, the line passes under another trackage and drops back into staging along the long wall.  This area will have a small interchange and a freelanced industry of some type. 
-There is an option to add a branch off the line that could wrap around to the area where the door for the room is.  This hasn't really been thought out much and may not be included or may be added at a later time.

Like I said, no construction for a while but I thought I'd throw this out here and get some feedback.  It is perfect plan, probably not.  It has some design issues, one aisle right next to the door is only 24" or so, but its only for a couple of feet.  The long wall has 32-37" aisle while the other is 30-32".  I think that is ok but I'm not sure.  I'm open to changing the footprint if someone has a better idea to use this space.  I'm also open to keeping the same benchwork design but changing the track plan.  Although with this size I was trying to keep large negative spaces.  The main line is roughly 115' long, plus the lower staging that will connect the two ends.  I think I can do the elevation changes without a helix. 

Finally, it will continue to be n scale and the fall season. 

That's about all for now.  I look forward to what your thoughts are!

-Mike

[Bendtracker1]

Glad to see you back Mike!
Have been wondering what became of you?

The new layout looks like a good design and great start.

[Rasputen]

Here are my thoughts:

1) You didn't specify the longest car or locomotive you plan on using, but the curves look like they are about 18 inch radius.  I would try to make them much larger, especially where there is 90 degrees or more of curvature.
2) Who is going to perform the switching at the industries?  If the traffic is generally in the direction of your description, I see several facing point turnouts.  You may need to provide a way for runaround moves unless there is a local switcher.
3) It might be fun for someone to take the DREI traffic from the interchange, but the track needs to head towards some staging, or at least be long enough for a train to go out of view.
4) After the turnback loop but before the second grain elevator, there are some sidings there.  If there is a lot of switching there, someone will be continuously standing in the narrow section of the aisle.

[nkalanaga]

I'd disagree on widening the curves.  That would also narrow the aisles, and my 89 ft flatcars, and passenger cars, run fine on 18 inch radius curves.  One of mine is well over 180 degrees, and even with a 12 car passenger train, derailments aren't a problem.  Freight trains run fine.

Now, if you have plenty of room, larger curves are a good thing, but don't cramp the aisle just for a few extra inches.

[GaryHinshaw]

Hey, a blast from the past!  Welcome back to the fold.  Looking forward to seeing you get back to those muted fall colours. 

That's a huge space you have to work with.  Make the most of it, but maybe think about how to approach it in stages.

[nscalemike]

Glad to see you back Mike!
Have been wondering what became of you?

The new layout looks like a good design and great start.

Thanks.  Just a long series of life events putting all this on pause.  Everything hobby related has been in boxes for about 3 years now!

But I still get on here every once in a while and check for some updates, including yours, and they are looking good!

[nscalemike]

Here are my thoughts:

1) You didn't specify the longest car or locomotive you plan on using, but the curves look like they are about 18 inch radius.  I would try to make them much larger, especially where there is 90 degrees or more of curvature.
2) Who is going to perform the switching at the industries?  If the traffic is generally in the direction of your description, I see several facing point turnouts.  You may need to provide a way for runaround moves unless there is a local switcher.
3) It might be fun for someone to take the DREI traffic from the interchange, but the track needs to head towards some staging, or at least be long enough for a train to go out of view.
4) After the turnback loop but before the second grain elevator, there are some sidings there.  If there is a lot of switching there, someone will be continuously standing in the narrow section of the aisle.

1, Its modern mainline, or at least 2000ish to present.  I've used smaller than 18" before and they work fine.  Most are actually closer to 20" with the exception of the turnback loop. 
2, Traffic will move both ways, that was just the side I started on for the description.  Some industries may have a dedicated crew through.
3, One of the things I don't care for with this.  None of the interchanges operate.  So unless someone has an idea on how to get a staging track worked in the interchanges will need to be staged by hand before operating sessions.
4, I don't really expect much switching here honestly.  I think that is used mostly for storage, some team track options.  Either way, I mostly operate by myself at this point, maybe one other person.  I agree this point is way too tight but it's only a couple feet long with big openings on either side. 

Thanks!
Mike

[nscalemike]

Hey, a blast from the past!  Welcome back to the fold.  Looking forward to seeing you get back to those muted fall colours. 

That's a huge space you have to work with.  Make the most of it, but maybe think about how to approach it in stages.

Thanks Gary and yes, I am also looking forward to that scenery.  I have some scenes playing out in my mind how they should look, lets see if I can make it happen again.  Only problem is I don't know when I will be to the point of planting a tree!  It may be another year!

That being said, I am thinking about stages and trying to decide if I could do a small part sooner, I'm thinking one of the two elevator scenes. 

Thanks!

[nkalanaga]

"None of the interchanges operate.  So unless someone has an idea on how to get a staging track worked in the interchanges will need to be staged by hand before operating sessions. "

Basically what I've read the British call a fiddle yard, and they work fine.  My MILW interchange is basically the same.  I do have a MILW line running "off stage", but the only way to add or remove cars is still by hand, on the visible layout.  The MILW line simply disappears into a tunnel, just long enough for a short train.

[OldEastRR]

If this is basically freelanced, and there's some debate about the radius of the turnback curve and some narrow aisles, I suggest you pull the end of the center peninsula back a few feet so it ends just before the door, in that big wide square of opening you've got. Then you could get bigger curves in and eliminate the short cramped aisle space. Then you fill up the space where the penisula now ends with some large industry or a branch line, not needing a turnback loop and thus letting you have wide aisles everywhere. Or possibly put an "operating interchange" there.
As for curves, as people say so often here on TRW, N scale is great for making sweeping vistas and long trains. And you can haggle over whether or not an 89' flat can get around a 15" R curve, but there's no denying a long train sweeping around a wide curve looks pretty damn good.
After all, you designed this room to give yourself lots of layout space. Was that for scenic looks or to cram in as much trackage as possible? Only you know the answer. 
Hope you find some other guys to help run this. Multi-operator sessions are great fun. (Esp. when somebody goofs up an assignment)

[nscalemike]

I made a few minor changes to help a couple of the things that have come up.  I put the major elevator on a slight angle, with a slight curve between it and the storage tracks.  This allowed me to make the peninsula a little bit smaller in width, giving my more aisle space all the way around.  The pinch point right above the door is now 27" vs 24".  The top aisle opens up to 38" and the bottom is 35".  I'm just not sure about working this curve into the scene here.  I could shorten the peninsula a little bit, but the two scenes on either side are prototype based and as they are currently drawn they are scaled down about 1/3 from real life.  Maybe I could go down to about half, but since I have the space I thought I would keep them as true to life as possible.  I also tried to get the other, more freelanced areas, to look about the same scale.  I'm not sure how close I got with that.

Also, I double checked and all the curves are at least 18", with a majority of them 20"+.  I was still able to make a few a little bigger than they were originally.

[MVW]

Hey, a blast from the past!  Welcome back to the fold.  Looking forward to seeing you get back to those muted fall colours. 

That.

Jim

[nscalemike]

Ugh. . . . Can anyone help. . .  I've done some more work on this plan, came back tonight, and my saved Anyrail file gives me an error, says "input stream error".  Four recent drafts will open, two won't, including the one
I worked on a few days ago.  Any ideas or am I screwed?

Thanks

[ronw1970]

Cant help with your question but I am curious why the switch to N scale?

[keeper]

I can't help with that one, but have you searched or asked in the Anyrail forum?
It seems it is quite active.

https://www.anyrail.com/forum_en/index.php

Thomas