Sound Decoder & Speaker Right Next to Motor & Magnets. Problem?

[tehachapifan]

Been trying to figure out how to cram a sound decoder and a speaker (with a really creative custom enclosure) in an N scale Lifelike E7A. These are the locos with the giant weight blobs that take up the whole shell and also act as worm housing covers. The only place a decoder or speaker might conceivably fit is right alongside the motor, between the motor and the shell. I've never installed a decoder or speaker this close to the motor or its magnets. Might this cause any problems (aside from the speaker wanting to stick to the motor magnets)? Could the motor magnets mess with the decoder's components or programming?

[peteski]

The magnet will not affect any of the decoder's circuitry.  But placing the metal speaker with its magnet right against the side of that open-frame motor might slightly affect the motor's performance.  If you have the speaker already do a test on it while the loco is still running on DC.  Just stick the speaker where you're planning on having it installed, then run the model to see how it behaves.  If there is any performance hit, it will probably be only slight.

But what worries me more is a lack of decent speaker enclosure, since I'm not sure how much room there is between the motor and the shell to fit a speaker and an enclosure in there.

Those E7s have lots of space in them. Yes, those 2 large lead weight (which would probably be a no-no in today's world) take up lots of interior room, but why not just trim one of the weights to make room for a decent speaker and enclosure?  Lead can be easily cut, so that should not be a problem.  And I suspect that even with one of the lead weights trimmed, the loco will still be heavier than a Kato E-unit.

[RBrodzinsky]

what about putting the speaker in the fuel tank?   Probably more than enough room to carve out a space, with decent "creatively shaped" enclosure

[tehachapifan]

I don't want to cut or use a Dremel on the lead weights as I don't want to produce lead shavings and dust. Not going to budge on that. I'm assuming that's what the fuel tank is made out of as well. With regards to the speaker enclosure, I picture being able to make a pretty big one that can cover the entire area over one side of the motor, There's a fairly large gap between the side of the motor and the inside of the shell there. How the speaker sits in this enclosure would be quite unusual though (the enclosure would have to [mostly] extend from the side(s) vs. the typical arrangement).

[peteski]

I don't want to cut or use a Dremel on the lead weights as I don't want to produce lead shavings and dust. Not going to budge on that. I'm assuming that's what the fuel tank is made out of as well. With regards to the speaker enclosure, I picture being able to make a pretty big one that can cover the entire area over one side of the motor, There's a fairly large gap between the side of the motor and the inside of the shell there. How the speaker sits in this enclosure would be quite unusual though (the enclosure would have to [mostly] extend from the side(s) vs. the typical arrangement).

Lead is not as deadly as it is made out to be nowadays.  I remember playing with unpainted lead solders as a kid. Um, maybe that explains some things about me?    How many others did the same? Also mechanics for many decades have used lead wheel balancing weights.

As an adult I have also handled lead (and still do). In the past I have poured liquid lead into molds, and nowadays I just cut lead flashing sheets into flat weights (I use a utility knife to score them, then I break them off by repeatedly banding at the score line.  I feel safe doing all that. I do wear disposable rubber gloves, and I wash my hands after handling lead (and of course I do not eat anything before making sure my hands are clean).

I don't remember if the fuel tank itself is made from painted lead casting, or is it a plastic tank with a lead weight inside?

As far as speaker enclosure goes, as long as it is sealed chamber, any shape or location will work.

[woodone]

You can use a copping saw to cut lead weights. You will need to use bee’s wax to coat the blade every once in a while has the lead is so soft it will clog the blade. The shavings or chis will b fairly large so they will not become air born.
Yes wash you hands after handling even if you use gloves.

[jdcolombo]

I used a jeweler's saw to do this for the lead weight in a LL PA-1, but a coping saw also would work fine.  Wear a disposable N-95 mask and suitable gloves.  When you're done, wipe down your work spot with damp paper towel and throw it, mask and gloves all away. 

John C.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, all, but I'm not going to cut the lead. For one, there are no provisions where I live for throwing the debris away. This is off the table (pun not intended, but it's kind of a cool one! ). I would like to keep the discussion to my original question if possible.

[peteski]

Thanks, all, but I'm not going to cut the lead. For one, there are no provisions where I live for throwing the debris away. This is off the table (pun not intended, but it's kind of a cool one! ). I would like to keep the discussion to my original question if possible.

In that case I'll just copy part of my last post:

I don't remember if the fuel tank itself is made from painted lead casting, or is it a plastic tank with a lead weight inside?
As far as speaker enclosure goes, as long as it is sealed chamber, any shape or location will work.

I also like to mention that if you do soldering  then (if you are using electronic type of solder) you are already handling lead, since about 40% of that solder is lead.  What do you do with the solder you discard?

[Steveruger45]

Hi Russ,
I’ve put decoders right on top of motors before with no issues.
I’ve put speakers in fuel tank areas right under motors too with no issues.
While I don’t have any Of these particular locos I think the fuel tank area is metal of some type but not lead so that might be a good place for hollowing out for a speaker enclosure.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, Steve! That's good to hear!

[jdcolombo]

I put LokSound micro decoders right on top of HO scale motors all the time.  I've probably done 50 HO diesels this way for a friend who wanted sound retrofitted to pre-sound-era HO diesels.  No problems at all.  Never put a speaker there, just because of height issues. 

John C.

[mmagliaro]

Actually, if the lead bothers you, you can seal the original weights in a ziplock bag and stash them somewhere on your workbench.  That exposes them to you even less than having them in the loco.  Then replace the
weights with  much smallerones made up of tungsten cubes.  For weights that big, you can use the 1/4" cubes
commonly available online at soapbox derby websites.  All you have to do is glue enough cubes together to equal the same weight as the original, which will only be about 60% of the original size.  They can be glued with contact cement, Walthers Goo, Pliobond etc.  And since you are making them up out of 1/4" cubes, you can somewhat "shape" the mass so that it sits well in your frame.

[tehachapifan]

The intact lead doesn't concern me. It's only when I start cutting, grinding or filing it. I'm simply not going to do it.

[peteski]

The curiosity got the best of me, so I found my Life-Like E7 I had stashed away.  It has those large lead weights painted black attached to the plastic chassis by plastic clips.   I am happy to report that the fuel tank (which had 4 corrugations molded in) is not lead but a standard white metal.  You can see that it looks different than the painted lead weights. It is chemically blackened.  It would be safe to modify. Unfortunately the fuel tank casting is rather shallow, so while you might be able to install the speaker there, it would not have any room for an enclosure.  It also appears that the motor is recessed into the plastic chassis, so there isn't any spare room available under the motor.

I also eyeballed the clearance on the sides of the motor (between flywheels), and there really isn't much room there.  Maybe the LokSound nano will fit, but the decoder's thickness (with the snapped-on wire dongle) might be a problem.  I also don't see much room for speaker there, not even mentioning the enclosure. There also isn't much clearance above the motor.

Good luck!