Lowell Smith 12-4 sleeper "Western"

[luvmrca]

The article in The Streamliner Vol 7 #2 did not have any photos of Sun cars.

[sirenwerks]

Not sure if this is a viable reference, but BrassTrains.com has an HO Sun sleeper and there are pics of both sides of the car, and it does not match the Lowell Smith offering (well, the one image of a model he provides and the prototype photo of the other side he offers).  It would be cool if he chimed in to clarify if the Sun cars would be different or just lipstick on a pig.


https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/095962/HO-Brass-Model-Wasatch-UP-Union-Pacific-Sun-Sleeper-Unpainted-1993-Run-Ace-P-M-

[Sokramiketes]

Not sure if this is a viable reference, but BrassTrains.com has an HO Sun sleeper and there are pics of both sides of the car, and it does not match the Lowell Smith offering.


https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/095962/HO-Brass-Model-Wasatch-UP-Union-Pacific-Sun-Sleeper-Unpainted-1993-Run-Ace-P-M-

It does help highlight some of the changes.  It will be the closest Sun series sleeper in N, so I can't fault Lowell from doing the car.  And he's advertising it as a "classic" version since it won't have an ACF riveted roof.  So no harm, no foul there.

I'm going to be tempted to carve the seventh window in one side and make it closer.  Kinda like fixing the plan number for the SP 10-6. 

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[Tad_T]

If he advertises it as a “Classic Version,” that means that he painted the closest thing he had. It is not a prototypical match.

[nickelplate759]

Lowell Smith explains the "Classic" designation for this car as follows:

RailSmith has tooled some new parts and used existing ‘Pullman’ parts to create this never-before-in-N-Scale sleeper! So we call this a Classic version and another great train story!

I'm taking that to mean that the sides at least are correct (at least for the Western car), but things like the roof, floor and maybe the ends are not.  I wonder if a Kato ACF roof will fit?

[thomasjmdavis]

Lowell Smith explains the "Classic" designation for this car as follows:

RailSmith has tooled some new parts and used existing ‘Pullman’ parts to create this never-before-in-N-Scale sleeper! So we call this a Classic version and another great train story!

I'm taking that to mean that the sides at least are correct (at least for the Western car), but things like the roof, floor and maybe the ends are not.  I wonder if a Kato ACF roof will fit?

Does Kato make an ACF car with a roof that detaches?  My only Kato ACF cars are Super Chief sleepers (4-4-2 and 10-6) and on those the roof-sides-ends are a 1 piece shell.  Coach from the original 1990s smoothside cars, maybe?

[Cajonpassfan]

Lowell Smith explains the "Classic" designation for this car as follows:

RailSmith has tooled some new parts and used existing ‘Pullman’ parts to create this never-before-in-N-Scale sleeper! So we call this a Classic version and another great train story!

I'm taking that to mean that the sides at least are correct (at least for the Western car), but things like the roof, floor and maybe the ends are not.  I wonder if a Kato ACF roof will fit?

Well,sh!t, you mean I just shelled out over hundred bucks for two ACF cars with Pullman roofs? That would really irritate me, and make me think twice about preordering and paying up front months before the cars are even due. Live and learn I guess. Or I could cancel the order and ask for a refund?
Otto K.

[nickelplate759]

I don't know, but I'm only expecting the sides to be right.  If the roof is right too I'll have a nice surprise.
He's pretty clear that "Classic" is meant as an approximate model.    For me it's close enough - I ordered a Wabash "Blue Horizon" car.

[Point353]

So buying a Sun car from LS for an early Amtrak train would be a foobie, is what you're saying?  Is it a matter of plating over windows or was there significant change?  I want to assemble an early Amtrak train and could live with an interior being off, but if the window arrangement is wrong I'll have to consider just how much off it is.

[Point353]

Of all the Sun sleeper photos on the net, I ran across 8 of the aisle side and none of the opposite.

[thomasjmdavis]

How much difference is there between a Pullman roof and an ACF roof, at least on "as built" post war cars?  I compared a Kato ACF 4-4-2 to  Kato (NYC) and Walthers (L&N) Pullman 10-6s - and the 10-6s had a few seams at one end that were closer together, but the seams themselves are very similar. 

I know that some cars (especially pre-war cars) ended up with variations as they aged- lapped or double seams and such.  But most of my models looks pretty similar.  And while roofs details are often difficult to see in photos of sleepers, those I can make out don't look vastly different.  What am I missing?

[peteski]

Does Kato make an ACF car with a roof that detaches?  My only Kato ACF cars are Super Chief sleepers (4-4-2 and 10-6) and on those the roof-sides-ends are a 1 piece shell.  Coach from the original 1990s smoothside cars, maybe?

I thought that all Kato passenger cars had separate roofs.

[Tad_T]

Lowell Smith explains the "Classic" designation for this car as follows:

RailSmith has tooled some new parts and used existing ‘Pullman’ parts to create this never-before-in-N-Scale sleeper! So we call this a Classic version and another great train story!

I'm taking that to mean that the sides at least are correct (at least for the Western car), but things like the roof, floor and maybe the ends are not.  I wonder if a Kato ACF roof will fit?

Not trying to be a d!ck but he painted three 10-6’s and called them 8-6’s for the Rock. That’s also what he means by “Classic Versions.”

It’s probably the closest that will ever be released to a Rock Island 8-6, but it is what it is.

[Cajonpassfan]

Well,sh!t, you mean I just shelled out over hundred bucks for two ACF cars with Pullman roofs? That would really irritate me, and make me think twice about preordering and paying up front months before the cars are even due. Live and learn I guess. Or I could cancel the order and ask for a refund?
Otto K.

I guess this was an unreasonable reaction on my part, since I got zapped for it.
Live and learn...
Otto

[thomasjmdavis]

I guess this was an unreasonable reaction on my part, since I got zapped for it.
Live and learn...
Otto

Sorry, I didn't mean to do any "zapping", if you meant my comment- I'm scratching my head at this point thinking that I need to find some detail photos of various ACF and Pullman roofs to see what the various models I have should look like.
I'm guessing that since LS spec's the roof as a Pullman part, what he probably means is the roof from a 10-6, which regardless of ACF or Pullman, would likely be incorrect due to different arrangements of vents and grabs and such.  I note in the "Sun" photos provided by Point353, there are rivets between the seams on the roof, which don't show up on any model, Kato or Walthers, I have in my collection.

I don't know that your reaction is unreasonable. Personally, I've had the same complaint, without having 100 bucks on the line.  While yes, LS does insert the word "classic" into his descriptions, you need to know his definition of the word (which is to say, "inaccurate"), and catch it somewhere in the couple of paragraphs on any given car.