JTC NSC 17-post well car coupler & etch issues

[Englewood]

Lots of good info, guys.
Looks like I have some work to do these next few weeks. I've bought a bunch of these cars since the first run, and will probably end up with way too many in a few years. I really like them!

[GaryHinshaw]

A quick footnote: another reason these cars uncouple so easily is the coupler itself.  The design is based on the MTL design, but the "thumb" of the coupler is angled to the side much more than a typical MTL (and this is fully "closed"):



Left is the JTC model; Right is an Atlas well with another MTL clone.  As long as you're going down this path, it's probably a good idea to swap the couplers out with genuine MTL's.

[peteski]

Interesting.  Another MTL coupler knock-off that is not quite identical, and not as reliable.  With all the CAD tools available is it really *THAT* difficult to get it rigth? 

@GaryHinshaw
There is a lots of good info on how to get to the coupler on these cars.  Might be worth splitting this thread to create a separate thread about the coupler repair/replacement.  Or at least crate another thread with an appropriate subject and in it link to the first post in this thread dealing with how to disassemble the car to get at the coupler.  That way this info would be easier to find in the future.

[turbowhiz]

I believe the coupler picture Gary has posted is in fact a damaged coupler, rather then "that's the way they all are". I had a two pack of cars, and the same end of both cars had couplers that looked very much like what Gary's does. A little worse in fact... I'd mentioned that earlier about this distortion, and this is exactly what I was talking about.

But the other end of the same car was entirely fine. And in my most recent example I had a coupler that was entirely broken.

They aren't knock off couplers as far as I know, according to JTC as well, they are actual MTL couplers. The trucks certainly are. They've just been damaged in shipping.

I found the picture I took of my "distorted" coupler example a while back, looks very much but a little worse then Gary's example.

[arbomambo]

The couplers used in the JTC cars are, indeed, MT 1015 couplers…just the coupler parts.
The bottom ‘box’, however, is specifically manufactured for the JTC car by the factory in China.

[peteski]

I believe the coupler picture Gary has posted is in fact a damaged coupler, rather then "that's the way they all are". I had a two pack of cars, and the same end of both cars had couplers that looked very much like what Gary's does. A little worse in fact... I'd mentioned that earlier about this distortion, and this is exactly what I was talking about.

Well, that is good to know.  Since this seems to be happening more often than host some random car, I wonder how this damage happens?  can the car shift forward and backward in its nest, causing the coupler to jam against the nest, causing it to distort, or in more severe cases, break?

[turbowhiz]

What's very odd is that when I've unpacked these cars with the damage, they didn't appear to be out of place in the nest at all. Even the car that had the entirely broken coupler appeared to be in its nest correctly at the time of unpacking. And the platform end was fine too, not damaged. But the whole coupler was broken off, you can see the condition of the coupler in the previously posted pics. And the broken piece was shaking around inside the nest, so I have little doubt that these cars left the factory in good condition.

One of the cars in my two pack from the first run that had the distorted coupler also had some damage to the platform end too... Easily bent back to shape, but it came bent.

It seems that the cars must spring back to their "correct" position in the box...

I have two more cars from the most recent run to check, I've not unpacked those guys yet to see their condition. Too many other projects on the bench at the moment.

Now all my cars were bought online and shipped to me, so they've been subjected to additional shipping wear and tear. I'll check with my good friend who works my LHS, and see if they've had any customer complaints about these cars and the couplers. As I mentioned earlier though, with the distorted coupler damage people might not have noticed the problem, beyond possibly an uncoupling issue.

Now all this to say, I very much like these cars! They are a very welcome addition to my intermodal fleet. A bit pricey, but even still, I'm very glad to have them.

[GaryHinshaw]

Interesting.  As it happens, I have a dozen 17-post cars from the first run () so I opened them all up and 11 of the 12 all had normal looking MTL couplers.  So happily the above example seems to be rare.  (That particular car had a broken coupler and a snapped-off brake-wheel stand on the other end.)  I took the weird coupler apart to inspect it and it does not look damaged, just different:



So who knows....  In any event, couplers like this should be replaced to reduce the risk of spontaneous uncouplings.  To that end, I am moving on to try out the first draft of a new coupler box for these cars:

[turbowhiz]

Ahh so much better.

Looks like you're cooking up more on that end then just the coupler...

[turbowhiz]

So I looked at my last two cars on hand...

One is absolutely perfect.

The other is in the worst shape of any I've yet seen! It has an entirely trashed end, coupler and walkway damage.. And the other end has walkway damage although the coupler seems more or less intact.

Now what's odd is the variability of damage. All 3 were from the same order and came packed together. All 3 single car packs.

One car perfect
One car broken coupler walkway undamaged
One car REALLY broken coupler and walkways on both ends damaged.

My count on six cars in two different orders is 3 fine 3 damaged.

Seems like the packaging still needs work to be honest... I've not had trouble with other shipped models like this.

(Damage pics attached... I was able to bend the walkways back no problem and all is good in that department now...)

[peteski]

Interesting findings.  Yes, the packaging seems to be suspect here.  I don't own any of these cars so I don't know what the box and nest look like, but it seems like if the box is subjected to a strong enough shock at its end, then the coupler can get jammed into the nest and break.  Do the jewel boxes have lid that latches in place, or are they loose (morel like Kato loco boxes). Maybe if the lid loosens up, and the box is subjected to shock, the damage will occur?
Or do they use different type of packaging? If you examine the area of the nest where the broken coupler could have jammed against, can you see any marks the coupler could have left?

I also think that while someone from JTC might be reading this thread (since they do post new product info on the forum), you might want to contact them directly, and describe the problem, or even point them to this thread.

[pmpexpress]

Interesting findings.  Yes, the packaging seems to be suspect here.  I don't own any of these cars so I don't know what the box and nest look like, but it seems like if the box is subjected to a strong enough shock at its end, then the coupler can get jammed into the nest and break.  Do the jewel boxes have lid that latches in place, or are they loose (morel like Kato loco boxes). Maybe if the lid loosens up, and the box is subjected to shock, the damage will occur?
Or do they use different type of packaging? If you examine the area of the nest where the broken coupler could have jammed against, can you see any marks the coupler could have left?

I also think that while someone from JTC might be reading this thread (since they do post new product info on the forum), you might want to contact them directly, and describe the problem, or even point them to this thread.

Like others have previously reported, I have also received a bunch of damaged first and second run 17-post cars.

A second run model was sent back to MBK because one of its couplers was completely broken off, the hand grabs were bent flush to the end platforms, and the brake wheel was bent.

Rough package handling by UPS resulted in the MBK replacement model arriving completely shifted to the left side of the car nests, which resulted in bent hand grabs and a coupler that was wedged into the end of the lower nest.

As was the case with the 9-post cars, the damage is occurring because the nests fail to restrict the movement of the models while they are in transit.

Once I have determined how many of the large group of cars that were acquired from Lombard and MBK are damaged, the issues will be reported to JTC.

[GaryHinshaw]

Man, I guess I got really lucky with my 17-post cars from the first run.  Only one had any significant damage - as reported above.  The other 11 were all fine, save for some slightly bent hand grabs on ~3 of them, which are easily fixed.  (Nothing like the issues with the 9-post cars, which JTC did their best to redress.)

I really have to wonder if the damage is occurring during packing rather than in shipment.  I find it very hard to displace a properly seated car in its clamshell, especially once the nested shell and jewel case lid are in place:



This car was on my top-5 list for a long time.  Now that I know how to replace the couplers, I'm happy as a clam.     BTW, the first test run of the new LEZ pocket went very well.  I had the car near the head of a 35-car train with 90% LEZ couplers and there were no issues at all.  Still a few tweaks to make to the pocket lid and ride height, but the path forward is much clearer today than it was yesterday.   Thanks @turbowhiz!

[John]

I also think that while someone from JTC might be reading this thread (since they do post new product info on the forum), you might want to contact them directly, and describe the problem, or even point them to this thread.

I sent JTC a heads up early on with a link to this thread. Since it's the holiday weekend, it may take a couple of days for them to see it .. in the meantime - the detective work is outstandig.  I have two of these still in the box from the first run .. so need to check them

[JaxTerminal]

Good Detective work indeed!

Yes, JTC is aware, and actively working on resolutions.  We are replacing any damaged parts, including the M-T original couplers to any modelers needing them (just email us). We are awaiting the Replacement end steps from the factory, that we will send out to those who need them, and we stand behind our product to the modeler's satisfaction. Thank You for your patience, as we work through this. Original M-T couplers are bought Bulk packed un-assembled from the M-T Factory.
 
We did our own investigation, (which led to ramming the box against a hard surface!), after the most recent shipment issues, and found an issue the factory did not, and yes, it is in the nest fit in the box. The nest is not tight enough in the box, so if the box/package is slammed, thrown, etc with force, the model will jam into the nest. It appears to be a tight fit, but not when subject to force. I suspect the weight of the metal car adds to the issue. The solution is for the nest to fit tighter with the lid on. We have the factory making another adjustment to the nest for a tighter fit in the box.

After the previous run issues, we inspected EVERY model in the last shipment from overseas, and found only a few issues(in the then revised nest), which we culled out from orders sent from JTC. This means that the revised nest handled the overseas bulk shipment, but not the shipments from JTC to distributors/ distributors to Dealers/ Dealers to customers.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience, and issues. It has been maddening to have the beautifully made cars subject to transit damage.  On the next freight car project we will subject the 'shipping test' to more powerful forces, than we did to this series!

JTC is resolving all issues with Dealers, and customers. Since the models are Sold Out, (we depleted the reserves for such purpose), we can offer replacement parts. Dealers have the option of replacement parts or full refunds.

In addition to the revised nest, we are working to have the coupler screw install from the bottom on the 11-post versions, and any re-runs of the 17-post or 9-post cars.

Thank You for all the investigations, we have noted all comments (and made sure that the Factory has those comments, as well).

Best Regards,
JTC-Steve