Montana Rail Link 2nd and 3rd Subs - "The Divide"

[Maletrain]

Interesting switchback into an industry... Good example of Ed's Law...

It looks like a couple of long storage tracks separated from the industrial site and a long switching lead to shift cars between the storage tracks and the various industry spots.  Probably is what the railroad decided to keep from much more extensive trackage to other places and industries as it lost customers and maybe even closed a branch.  There seems to be a lot of defunct ROW in the Google map to suggest this type of evolution.

A train coming in from the left could clear the main on that lead, then shove the train into one of the storage tracks, then pull cars from the industry into the other storage track, then pull and shove incoming cars into the industry, all while the main is kept clear for other traffic.

It doesn't look like the operation is big enough for a different approach, where the industry has its own switcher, and they do the pulling and shoving to get the storage track(s?) filled with outgoing cars, which a mainline train simply picks up and adds to its train while it is stopped on the main.  Industries with huge outputs, like coal mines, might use this second process, which is more like using an interchange yard.

There is a big industry on our club layout where I wish this type of track plan was available.  It gets a large number of cars and has a double ended siding, but has a lead that can only handle 2 at a time.  I spend almost a whole op session getting pulls and shoves done there, while repeatedly having to clear the main and wait for traffic to pass.  I asked that layout CEO about putting a suitable switching lead there, but his response was that the lead would have to go to the next town, and that would mess with his idea of selective compression.  So, this job always becomes a marathon switching puzzle. 

A marathons switching puzzle might intrigue a certain type of layout owner, who would do it himself often enough to learn all the site-specific and manifest-specific tricks.  But, it can be a problem for layout owners who like to invite others to operate with them on an occasional basis.

[nkalanaga]

I wonder if it was originally served by the MILW?  Rail-served industries in that area had to do some scrambling when the MILW abandoned their lines around 1980.

The MILW also had a branch that ran for miles up the Blackfoot River from Milltown.  It once connected with a logging line at Clearwater Junction, but that was gone a LONG time ago.  The branch lasted into the 70s, at least.  It was intended to be the MILW's mainline to Canada, and to Great Falls, splitting at the junction, but never went any further.

[wazzou]

I wonder if it was originally served by the MILW? Rail-served industries in that area had to do some scrambling when the MILW abandoned their lines around 1980.

The MILW also had a branch that ran for miles up the Blackfoot River from Milltown.  It once connected with a logging line at Clearwater Junction, but that was gone a LONG time ago.  The branch lasted into the 70s, at least.  It was intended to be the MILW's mainline to Canada, and to Great Falls, splitting at the junction, but never went any further.

It was.

[trainzluvr]

Uh so many replies and I did not get a notification of any today.

I do not mind back-dating the industrial park to my time period of 1987-2001. Though I doubt the prototype track setup is reproducible in the little space I have there, and I'm not really keen on switching puzzles, especially not on a room sized layout. In my opinion, they belong on their own as they are intended, even though I see some people incorporating them into their layouts thinking that's going to be operationally "exciting" and/or "challenging". Railroads don't like puzzles, and majority of people don't want to be struggling shuffling cars back and forth either.

Would there be any concerns if Helena did not have its own yard, or at least not a big one? I was going to only model some industries in the city and bring cars from Missoula, or Laurel in Staging.

I do fancy the idea of yard transfers between Missoula and Helena, but would Helena do a lot of local switching or warrant having a switching yard (maybe 2 yards is 1 too many for this size of a layout)?

[nkalanaga]

In 1967 Helena and Missoula had about the same number of NP-served customers, according to official NP Industry List (signed by E. M. Stevenson, VP of Traffic, no less).  They probably both had fewer, for various reasons, by 1987, but the ratio should be about the same.

Helena is not only the capital city of Montana, it's the only major city for miles around, and serves a very large area. 

As far as the yards, that's a choice you'll have to make.  Given the area available, I doubt that either town will have enough traffic to justify two yards, so serving one from the other would be fine.  My only concern is on principle.  The idea of running locals over the continental divide, to serve a major city, just doesn't sound right!

I do that, from Helena no less, on my railroad, but the towns on the west side aren't big enough to justify a large yard, and they're only about 50 miles from Helena.  Prototypically, Missoula to Helena, switching along the way, would be a long day's work.

If it was me, and I had the room, I think I'd put the major yard at one town, and a small yard, just some switching and storage tracks, at the other.  Station a switch crew there, have the mainline trains drop off a block of cars, sort them, switch the industries, and park the cars picked up for the next through train.  Without the service facilities, it wouldn't take much room, and "local" crews could switch both sides of the pass.  All you'd need is a sand tower, a fuel truck, and possibly a small engine house, just enough to get a unit inside for minor repairs.

[trainzluvr]

The more I look around, the more I see there's nothing of interest west of Helena leading to Missoula.

I've also decided to put Belgrade/Bozeman where Logan is. Not sure which one I'll go for - Belgrade perhaps because of an airport near-by, and because I want to have an Amtrak service on this line (the other two stops would be in Helena and Missoula). Bozeman appears to have had a depot at some point in the past, too.

What to do with Logan though, 5th Sub forks there and there's a 844 local servicing it (including Three Forks I modelled)?

Townsend as a modelled location I want to remove - I put it in because it's about half-way to Logan, but otherwise I see nothing of operational of interest for me in it, not in my 1987-2002 timeframe. Would it be a crime if I moved Logan geographically to where Townsend is?

Otherwise, I really (really) do not wish to model ~25ft of scenery between East Helena and Belgrade/Bozeman, along with the Lombard Canyon on the tip of that peninsula.

Another item I replaced was Pipestone, it's too far and out of the way, so I replaced it with a grain terminal at Harrison. Even that might not stay, depends if I feel it's too crammed in that area.

I liked what nkalanaga wrote above so I'll make Helena a smaller yard with couple of switching and storage tracks and whatever industries along the wall. Then might run a yard transfer from Missoula to Helena, or put the cars for Helena on a manifest coming from Laurel or Spokane. Local Helena crew can switch and deal with local stuff.

Do these things below in the layout make any sense?

[nkalanaga]

That's about all Helena yard is today, looking at Google Maps.  Storage, local switching, and the helper terminal for Mullan Pass.

About the only major online industry in the MRL era between Helena and Missoula (Milltown), and I believe it's closed now, was Phosphate, near Garrison.  As the name implied, they mined phosphate rock there, and shipped it out in open hoppers, often 4-bay, the ones Trainworx makes.  All it was was a spur, curving around the hill, back out of sight of the freeway.  There was usually a string of hoppers visible, but the mine and loading facilities weren't.  A perfect industry for a limited space.

[trainzluvr]

About the only major online industry in the MRL era between Helena and Missoula (Milltown), and I believe it's closed now, was Phosphate, near Garrison.  As the name implied, they mined phosphate rock there, and shipped it out in open hoppers, often 4-bay, the ones Trainworx makes.  All it was was a spur, curving around the hill, back out of sight of the freeway.  There was usually a string of hoppers visible, but the mine and loading facilities weren't.  A perfect industry for a limited space.

Thanks for the suggestion - would that Phosphate industry be replacing my Bonner-Milltown Industrial Park?

What should I do about Townsend and Logan though? I'd like to get rid of Townsend, but Logan needs to be somewhere for the local to Three Forks and Harrison, unless I send a local from Helena directly. It still leaves the Townsend area empty in that case...

[nkalanaga]

Phosphate could easily replace Milltown.  Certainly it would take less room, and wouldn't be just another sawmill.

What's at Logan?  I can't find it, or Trident, in the 1967 customer list, so it doesn't sound too lively.

If it was me, I'd keep Townsend, and get rid of Harrison.  There'd be more switching opportunities in Townsend.  Helena to Three Forks wouldn't be that far for a local.

[coldriver]

Here's a shot I took of MRL's Phosphate Local in October 1988, crossing the Clark Fork on the short branchline to access the loadout just beyond I-90.  I don't believe operations lasted into the 1990's. 


Back before I started building my Oregon Joint Line layout I had drawn up plans to model pretty much the same area (Garrison to Logan) in the late NP era (1969).  Another possibility you might consider is the small yard at Garrison which is the only active MRL interchange (with Montana Western 1986-2003, with BNSF 2003 to current) within your layout limits.  In addition to being the interchange for BNSF's Butte area service it's also a link to the UP connection at Silver Bow - so it's quite busy (perhaps 50 cars a day) and gets a nice variety of cars.  If it was me I'd replace Bozeman with Logan - it's true that Bozeman has some local switching but to me it's best known as the spot where helpers are added for the eastbound shove over Bozeman Pass (which you're not modeling).  In addition to Logan being a somewhat photogenic junction town (where the Butte and Helena lines split) it has landed a sizeable tank car unloading facility in the past decade - in total that single industry likely gets more traffic than everything in Belgrade and Bozeman combined currently.  Trident has a large cement plant right along the mainline so it would be a nice addition (but I know you can't do everything) and I've always been partial to Townsend as a nice spot for the local to work.   

[nkalanaga]

Is the cement plant at Trident served by MRL now?  It used to be on the MILW, but they were gone before MRL took over the NP.  A few years back there was an article in one of the Montana papers on that plant, noting that rather than coal or oil, it burned old tires in its kilns.  They provided both heat and the iron that cement needs.  Most such plants use oil, gas, or coal, and use blast furnace slag for the iron content.  You could supply them with carloads of scrap tires!

That picture is interesting, as I never saw covered hoppers at Phosphate.  Maybe they were using the tracks to store open hoppers in the 90s?

We were by there in 1983 and 1985, but I didn't pay much attention to it then.

[trainzluvr]

I'm modeling MRL 1987-2001 (or 2003) and most of these now defunct industries would still be around...

Logan has a local that MRL runs to Three Forks, Harrison, etc, that's why I asked if I omitted Logan would a local from Helena be believable, There is a grain elevator, CHS fuel tank farm, gas dealer in present day.

Uh oh before I forget...

Oregon Joint Line



OK, back to regular programming...

I could get rid of Lombard Canyon, and then have a lineup Townsend - Trident - Logan, although that tip of the blob seems very suitable for the Lombard Canyon as a scenic break?

Though I fear the entirety of my railroad will sum down to running all kinds of hoppers (grain/feeds, cement, phosphate...you name it) and I was hoping for a more variety in goods and services (I know MRL doesn't have that much variety). That's why I put Belgrade/Bozeman so I could invent industries like a brewery, maybe a candy factory, some other random small manufacturer, etc, and a reason to put an Amtrak station because of the airport.

@coldriver do you still have those plans you made for Garrison - Logan, it would be intertesting to see, if possible?

[coldriver]

@nkalanaga The common misconception about those NP industry lists is that they're not a comprehensive list of all industries - they're lists showing industry access rights in locations where there were multiple railroads present.  If you look at the list for Montana places like Butte, St Regis, and Three Forks show because the Milwaukee or UP was also there, but places like Thompson Falls, Paradise, Townsend, Logan, or Trident do not show because NP was the only railroad in those towns (although there do seem to be some exceptions to that rule...).   As far as I know Trident was an NP only town, served by the 1041-1042 Bozeman-Townsend local - the Milwaukee passed several miles to the north.

[coldriver]

@coldriver do you still have those plans you made for Garrison - Logan, it would be intertesting to see, if possible?

this is a bit tough to read having been drawn in pencil, but this was a plan I was seriously considering but ultimately decided on the Oregon Joint Line concept.  It starts at Garrison on the west end (with a bit of the Phosphate branch) with hidden staging for the Butte Line, then continued on over Mullan Pass (summit at Blossburg) to Helena where the GN line was also represented.  At East Helena I had the Smelter on the NP and the Montana City cement plant on the GN, then on to Townsend before dropping via helix to the lower deck which contained Lombard Canyon, Trident, and Logan (also with Butte Line staging).  Helper operations would've been a large part of the operating scheme.  I seem to have lost the plan for the lower deck. 

[nkalanaga]

ColdRiver:  Makes sense, as I can't find several town in eastern Washington that I know had industries, AND were served only by the NP.  Thank you!

Both Helena and Missoula had Amtrak service when Bozeman did, so you already have an excuse for that.

Helena had scrap metal (gons), a produce distributor (reefers, insulated boxcars), at least two printing companies (boxcars, maybe tank cars), a steel fabricator (flatcars, gons).  Missoula had even more industries, so almost any type of car could be used online.

Plus, MRL has always been a bridge route, so literally anything that will fit through the tunnels could show up.