Ballast suggestions for UP ROW

[up__1995]

I am looking for ballast suggestions for N scale UP track (see picture). This prototype is based in Utah. What products have folks used? @GaryHinshaw  has great ballast work- what products does he use?

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[GaryHinshaw]

I swear by Smith & Sons Penn-Ohio Limestone #50:



The business is a garage operation, now on its 3rd generation of proprietor, Paul Burger, after the first two passed on.  The contact info in the link below was current as of early 2020.  Hopefully it still is.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=46799.msg613703#msg613703

-gfh

[up__1995]

Thanks for the info Gary, love your work btw. I'll look into it. May end up going the route of Arizona Rock and Mineral, but still figuring out some of the details with trackwork.

Big fan of your layout, one of the best N scale ones I've seen. Is there a thread dedicated to it, or a post where I could read more about it?

[wazzou]

I use blends of AZ Rock & Minerals to represent ballast from a specific NP pit.
I wonder @GaryHinshaw, is that photo you’ve shown pre-glued?
I’ve never taken a picture that closely of my ballast, but I’m intrigued now to do so to see if the individual rocks look so, well…individual.

[GaryHinshaw]

Thanks @up__1995 .  If you have the stomach for it, there is a very long thread in the Engineering forum, but it's gotten a bit unwieldy.  I haven't posted to it for several months though because I've been so pre-occupied with my Mono.  Aside from adding a few more signals and turnouts, I haven't really made any layout progress this year.   

@wazzou I alway thought the ballast on your module looked top drawer.  I'd love to see a close-up.  The ballast in my shot is glued in: a mist of alcohol followed by a drizzle of matte medium.  The S&S ballast has an excellent shape, to my eyes at least, and it holds up well to gluing.  (Need to weather that track now...)

[robert3985]

I really like Gary's @GaryHinshaw ballast.  However, I never heard of Smith & Sons ballast before, but I'm definitely going to look into it! 

As for UP's ballast in Utah, generally it's pretty close to the same color everywhere in Weber & Echo Canyons, with some variations due to newness, weed killer, up-grade and down-grade trackage...and also where it's mined and processed.  I had a chart that was published in UP Historical Society's The Streamliner quarterly showing elevation, grade, sidings for the entire Weber and Echo Canyons, and it also showed that there were many suppliers of ballast for the right-of-way from various places and although they were probably right on as far as rock size is concerned, there is a very good chance the colors are slightly different.

That said, I also measured the size of the prototype ballast rocks and found they were 2.75" to 3.5" in diameter, sharply crushed. I also took color photos during a sunny day and determined there were several shades of grey and black, as well as reddish brown rocks.  I thought five shades of rocks should do the trick, and I also built a couple of screens to get the rocks the right size and get rid of as much dust as possible.

The mainline I was looking at was at Devils Slide and Echo, and when I took my photos there was a layer of reddish brown stuff down the middle of the track, staining both ballast and ties.  This was weed killer, and it builds up as it's used, with freshly ballasted trackage showing a lot less reddish brown stuff than the older track.

I used Highball Real-Rock Ballast and some dirt I dug at Echo then screened it all, and mixed it up.  I don't remember the ratio, but I used N-scale Light Grey, Dark Grey, Cinder, Brown, and my reddish brown dirt. 

I painted my Rail Craft Code 70 track (on my Ntrak modules) and Rail Craft Code 55 (on my modular layout) with rattle cans of Krylon Ultra Flat Camo Black, making sure I got the vertical surfaces of the ties and sides of the rails, the removed the paint from the railheads before it cured...then hit the tracks again with Krylon Ultra Flat Camo Brown...lightly spraying directly down from the top to barely cover the tops of the ties and get a little overspray on the sides of the rails...and removed the paint again before it cured.

Then, using several different shades of PollyScale weathering paint, I hit random ties with Dirt, Railroad Tie Brown, Mud, Roof Brown, a Grimy Black wash...using prototype photos as a reference to get it close to what I was seeing in the photos.

Then I ballasted my mainlines.

After the ballast cement had dried, and I'd picked the stray rocks off the sides of the rails and touched up any shiny silver spots showing on the rail webs, I took my airbrush and hit the tracks down the middle with a very dilute reddish brown color to replicate the weed killer effect. 

I can't really tell for sure, but Gary's ballast looks just a bit too dark for Utah UP Ballast, but mixing it with the #50 "Grey" might do the trick.  I'd be interested in mixing in some "Fine-Cinder Blend Brown" if it were #50...which might be just the right color, but maybe not a matching rock size.

Photo (1) - UP mainline in Wilhemina Pass just east of Devils Slide...Rail Craft Code 70 flex, Painted & Weathered, Highball N-scale Ballast Blend:


Photo (2) - UP Mainline at "The Monument" in Wilhemina Pass...Rail Craft Code 70 flex, Painted & Weathered, Highball N-scale Ballast Blend:


Photo (3) - UP Mainline at Echo Curve just East of the Echo Coaling Tower...Rail Craft Code 55 flex for mainlines, hand-laid Code 40 for the Park City Branch, Highball N-scale Ballast Blend & Cinders on Branch:


Even with a different ballast brand than I'm using, I'm pretty sure you could get good results with either S&S or Arizona Rock & Minerals.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ednadolski]

I'm pretty sure you could get good results with either S&S or Arizona Rock & Minerals.

Some of the AZRM stuff tho has a bit of a 'quartz-ish' look in close-up pics.    I find it also helps to do a little additional sifting/screening, if you prefer a more uniform size.

Ed

[davefoxx]

Some of the AZRM stuff tho has a bit of a 'quartz-ish' look in close-up pics.    I find it also helps to do a little additional sifting/screening, if you prefer a more uniform size.

Ed

^ This.  Now that I have gotten a little bit better at ballasting, I am looking back at the ballast installed on my layout, and it has some of those characteristics described here.

DFF

[wazzou]

^ This.  Now that I have gotten a little bit better at ballasting, I am looking back at the ballast installed on my layout, and it has some of those characteristics described here.

DFF

I just let weathering (dust) fix it.   

[davefoxx]

I just let weathering (dust) fix it.   

Me, too!   

DFF

[jpwisc]

I found AZRM very disappointing to use. Smith and Sons is a far better product. Their Penn-Ohio #50 blend would be a good match. It might take a little more work to get,  but you won’t regret it. It is hands down the best ballast I have used.

[jereising]

I found AZRM very disappointing to use.

Curious as to why...I used a lot of AR&M with little issues...but then again I'm not in @GaryHinshaw or @robert3985's class

[jpwisc]

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Curious as to why...I used a lot of AR&M with little issues...but then again I'm not in @GaryHinshaw or @robert3985's class

AR&M is inconsistent in size. I tried several colors and found oversized chunks in every batch. Don’t get me wrong, it’s better than Woodland Scenics, but it is mediocre quality. Smith & Sons has far better quality control. The ballast is more uniform in size and content. I have used around 15 pounds of it so far and haven’t found a single chuck off in it. I can’t get through 2 spoonfuls of AR&M without finding chucks. It really is the best quality N Scale Ballast

[robert3985]

Although I haven't used ARMBallast on my own layout, I've used it for clients' and friends' layouts and modules since getting Highball Ballast became impossible and I wanted to save my Highball mix for my own layout.  I've used ARMBallast in a couple of ways, first mixing three different colors to get UP Utah color...starting with Empire Builder GN (BN) Ballast, and mixing in Union Pacific Tan Granite and Southern Pacific Black Cinder.  In my second effort, I used UP/Silverton/WP Bold Gray with a bit of Southern Pacific Black Cinder mixed in.  I was happier with the UP/Silverton/WP Bold Gray with Southern Pacific Black Cinder mixed in than my first mix.

I didn't notice any excessive quartz glint/transparency from either mix, but I did notice that in my first application, there was a lot of dust making for a sort of "concrete" look.  In my second application, I graded my mix using my grading screens, and most of the dust was sifted out, which gave me a better result.

Although I wasn't really dissatisfied with ARMBallast, I much prefer my Highball Ballast mix, but...since Highball isn't made anymore, I will definitely be ordering some S&S to see if I like it when I see it in actual use.  Seeing Gary's @GaryHinshaw photos gives me high hopes!

For my own use on my layout, I ALWAYS grade any ballast I use with my two-screen grading process, and I get oversized rocks out of both Highball and ARMBallast (although more out of ARMBallast...and more dust too).  I will grade S&S when I get some too, just because it's my habit and if I don't, and there happens to be oversized rocks in it, they will surely migrate to the location I want to take most of my photos!

Photo (1) - Here's a photo of ARMBallast I used on Nate's @Nato Riverside scene:


Photo (2) - Here's a closeup at the signal at Riverside:




Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Angus Shops]

Stay miles away from Woodland Scenics ballast, but they do have a mineral product they call ‘gravel’ which they intend to be used for roads and etc. It comes in ‘fine’ and ‘coarse’; fine is suitable for n scale ballast, if possibly a little too fine. It is a mineral product, so it has none of the dreaded ‘floating’ issues that plague their regular ballast. The colour range is limited to, I think, light grey, darker grey, and buff, but the colour is good, with a little variation for a nice mix. I used light grey for all my track, and airbrushed everything not ‘mainline’ with appropriate darker colours (Vallejo). I’m very satisfied.