New Athearn december

[GonzoCRFan]

I'm just not up on my intermodal stuff. About how late did the brown 89' cars last? I just got one as part of a group and am on the fence about keeping it. And what about the old TT yellow scheme? I was watching a video from 1993 that looked like it had lots of fresh yellow TTX Long Runners, but it doesn't make sense for them to pull cars out of service jusrt for paint if they weren't being rebuilt...

[Tristan Ashcroft]

I'm just not up on my intermodal stuff. About how late did the brown 89' cars last? I just got one as part of a group and am on the fence about keeping it. And what about the old TT yellow scheme? I was watching a video from 1993 that looked like it had lots of fresh yellow TTX Long Runners, but it doesn't make sense for them to pull cars out of service jusrt for paint if they weren't being rebuilt...

When Athearn first announced these cars in HO... a while ago, they included a picture in the ad of one of these cars in the brown scheme at the Brickyard...  I remember the picture being from about 1989 or 1990... ish.  But that one was rare.  A standard trailer train was pretty much just yellow flats (and front runners and some early spine cars) at that point. 
        To your point about pulling cars out of service for the full repaint, it seems odd that they would just repaint the whole fleet.  But when they changed from writing out "Trailer Train" to just having the TTX logo in 1991, the old Trailer Train cars disappeared in a hurry (seemed like just a few years).  Maybe the yellow was pretty easy to patch?...

[davefoxx]

@GonzoCRFan,

Since I model the 1983-86 era, I've researched the issue in the past.  My decision was that I wouldn't likely include a brown TT flatcar in my fleet.  Not because they didn't exist then, but because they would be exceedingly rare and even more so by the early 1990s.  Since our model fleets are generally small, having even one brown car would throw your fleet way out of proportion for the proper ratio of brown to yellow cars.  So, my suggestion would be to go all yellow in your fleet.  YMMV.

DFF

[James Costello]

So, my suggestion would be to go all yellow in your fleet.  YMMV.

Got to echo Dave on this one for the 80s and 90s onwards, especially for intermodal use. As the spines and double stacks took over intermodal fleets, the workhorse F89 family were repurposed into other roles and you'd be far more likely to see a brown TT F89F with JTTX / ITTX marks with the hitches removed in less glamorous roles:

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=88604

I've got a series of much better photos from 06-08 somewhere I'll dig up and post.

Whilst these aren't F89Fs, the concept was repeated:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ittx232467u24.jpg

Even pair your junker with an Atlas / BLMA F89J:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/jttx200497akg.jpg

[James Costello]

Thank you!  Once again Athearn's artwork is a bit misleading (at least for me) in that only two hitches are shown in that announcement, and the reporting marks shown are TTX.  Should the cars with four hitches actually have XTTX reporting marks, or are there other markings on the car to indicate it is an "XTTX" version of an 89-ft flatcar?   

I checked my April 15, 1986 ORER, and it shows XTTX reporting marks for cars in the 150244-154589 number range.  A quick overview of the numbers in Athearn's announcement also puts them in the range of cars that have TTX reporting marks.  And, I found the yellow car shown in Athearn's artwork for the announcement, TTX 150612, was in service in 1986.

Now I am really confused!

You have to remember that cars within the Trailer Train / TTX fleet never changed numbers, only the reporting marks changed as the role of the car changed. It is entirely possible that in any point in time, TT cars within a number range could have a couple of different reporting marks, especially with versatile cars like the F89F. In the late 80s and definitely the early 90s, the most pressing need was to cater for 28' trailers (that spines couldn't do yet), so the bulk of them ended up in RTTX service with 3 hitches for Triple 28 / Twin 45 service, but there would still be stragglers with TTX, TOFC roles like KTTX, WTTX and STTX, and general purpose roles such as JTTX, ITTX, MTTX and still a couple in BTTX Bi-Level autorack service for vans and SUVs etc.

[James Costello]

XTTX was flat equipped with 4 collapsible hitches. They were loaded circus style and allowed 1 40' and 1 45' trailer or three 28' trailers. I think these were a transition item between the TTX and RTTX/KTTX era of flats. A quick search shows only photos in the yellow Trailer Train scheme. So 75-85ish?

The XTTX also date from 1966, some 20 years before the 28' pup trailer explosion, so not just a transition item. Only 470 of the +5,500 F89Fs that were built were XTTXs, so pretty rare in the scheme of things, but they were there from the start and were delivered in brown scheme. The Trailer Train book says they were gone by 1992.

Photos are rare in general, but here's a shot from 1979:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=xttx153651&o=ttx

Yellow TT probably on the same train:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=xttx154120&o=ttx

1969:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4530118


https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=39314.msg480934#msg480934

[James Costello]

I was watching a video from 1993 that looked like it had lots of fresh yellow TTX Long Runners, but it doesn't make sense for them to pull cars out of service jusrt for paint if they weren't being rebuilt...

Sean, you're right. There's a series of flush-deck flats (the Atlas, MTL etc ACF models along with the PS and BSC builders) that were modified and assembled into Long Runner pairs (the TTEX 353xxx series) and they appear in the 1993ish era videos in fresh TTX paint - even the decks! They stand out distinctly among all the other flats in the trains and all the early 90s Tehachapi videos have them too!

https://flic.kr/p/fDvTeZ
https://flic.kr/p/fDvTLT

When I get around to doing some of these, they'll probably the only TTX flats on the layout without some form of weathering - they just always look mint in the videos (for what must have been a really short period of time in reality).

[jagged ben]

Got to echo Dave on this one for the 80s and 90s onwards, especially for intermodal use. As the spines and double stacks took over intermodal fleets, the workhorse F89 family were repurposed into other roles and you'd be far more likely to see a brown TT F89F with JTTX / ITTX marks with the hitches removed in less glamorous roles:

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=88604

I've got a series of much better photos from 06-08 somewhere I'll dig up and post.

Whilst these aren't F89Fs, the concept was repeated:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ittx232467u24.jpg

Even pair your junker with an Atlas / BLMA F89J:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/jttx200497akg.jpg

Wow, great finds.  I was going to say I didn't think any brown existed by 1990.  Now, if I say none were still in actual TOFC service that might still be true.  The most recent I'm aware of is 1985.
https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=48534
For an 89ft car - or maybe that's an 85ft car -  it's '83.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3363970

For the record, the fallenflags ITTX you posted is '94 and the JTTX is '88.

Also, since it relates to the discussion, here's the Athearn Long Runner in the yellow TT scheme in Harrisburg NJ - 10/17/88.   First photo I found online to prove they were real.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/ttex161159akg.jpg

If anyone can find a 'TT' Long Runner photo with trailers on it, I'd wanna see it.  I doubt they actually saw that many 53s. 

[cfritschle]

You have to remember that cars within the Trailer Train / TTX fleet never changed numbers, only the reporting marks changed as the role of the car changed. It is entirely possible that in any point in time, TT cars within a number range could have a couple of different reporting marks, especially with versatile cars like the F89F. In the late 80s and definitely the early 90s, the most pressing need was to cater for 28' trailers (that spines couldn't do yet), so the bulk of them ended up in RTTX service with 3 hitches for Triple 28 / Twin 45 service, but there would still be stragglers with TTX, TOFC roles like KTTX, WTTX and STTX, and general purpose roles such as JTTX, ITTX, MTTX and still a couple in BTTX Bi-Level autorack service for vans and SUVs etc.

James,

What is confusing to me is the Athearn 10/30/2020 announcement states the cars will have XTTX reporting marks, but the artwork shows TTX reporting marks, and two hitches. 

Since I cannot find the link to the announcement on Athearn's website, here is a screen shot of the pdf.

[James Costello]

        To your point about pulling cars out of service for the full repaint, it seems odd that they would just repaint the whole fleet.  But when they changed from writing out "Trailer Train" to just having the TTX logo in 1991, the old Trailer Train cars disappeared in a hurry (seemed like just a few years).  Maybe the yellow was pretty easy to patch?...

Easy to patch and/or covered by grime too, although trying to find good 90s era photos isn't easy:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=rttx153372&o=ttx
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/rttx250620spa.jpg
https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=50467

Some times you don't even have to decal that well 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/rttx150941akg.jpg
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=rttx155626&o=ttx

[James Costello]

James,

What is confusing to me is the Athearn 10/30/2020 announcement states the cars will have XTTX reporting marks, but the artwork shows TTX reporting marks, and two hitches. 

Since I cannot find the link to the announcement on Athearn's website, here is a screen shot of the pdf.

Carter - I hear you and don't get me started on the Athearn art department. The recently released 53' X-Post containers are rife with errors, despite information to correct it. Sadly this is across the board.

My only hope is that because the XTTX cars have been mentioned frequently among the preceding F89F releases as being 4 hitch cars and that the release flyer you posted actually has the "XTTX #xxxxxx" in the Athearn part numbers, is that they'll decorate them accordingly. From memory, the same release is mirrored in HO that month so it might get someone to cast their eye over it....

[cfritschle]

If anyone can find a 'TT' Long Runner photo with trailers on it, I'd wanna see it.  I doubt they actually saw that many 53s.

All of the photos I took of Long Runners in the late 1990s and early 2000s in Idaho that have a trailer spanning the two cars generally have the 53-ft trailers on the ends, and either a 45-ft or 48-ft trailer in the middle.  However, I have some videos from 7idea that were shot on UP's Cascade, Valley and Black Butte subdivisions in the mid-2000s that have quite a few Long Runners in service between Portland and LA.  I will have to watch the videos again, but I think several of the Long Runners did have three 53-ft trailers.

[James Costello]

All of the photos I took of Long Runners in the late 1990s and early 2000s in Idaho that have a trailer spanning the two cars generally have the 53-ft trailers on the ends, and either a 45-ft or 48-ft trailer in the middle.  However, I have some videos from 7idea that were shot on UP's Cascade, Valley and Black Butte subdivisions in the mid-2000s that have quite a few Long Runners in service between Portland and LA.  I will have to watch the videos again, but I think several of the Long Runners did have three 53-ft trailers.

Carter, the think @jagged ben is referring to the era in time where the Long Runners wore the TT yellow scheme (and wanting to see photos with trailers) and not the TTX post 91 scheme, rather than whether they actually carried 3x 53' trailers.

I'm looking and I have one in a magazine I need to find, but here's some early 90s patch-outs I found quickly:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96383454@N00/26478860179/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96383454@N00/38200240896/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96383454@N00/44083533200/

Since they started the conversions in 1988, I think it says more about that blackspot era of photography that is still sitting in attics and not published (print or internet) yet.

[cfritschle]

Carter - I hear you and don't get me started on the Athearn art department. The recently released 53' X-Post containers are rife with errors, despite information to correct it. Sadly this is across the board.

My only hope is that because the XTTX cars have been mentioned frequently among the preceding F89F releases as being 4 hitch cars and that the release flyer you posted actually has the "XTTX #xxxxxx" in the Athearn part numbers, is that they'll decorate them accordingly. From memory, the same release is mirrored in HO that month so it might get someone to cast their eye over it....

James,

I also have had issues with Athearn, but in my case the artwork was correct, and the models were wrong.  I bought three 5-packs of their Coal Porters for the PGEX (Portland Rose) coal train based on the artwork looking correct. 

I already had 47 of the deLuxe innovations Coal Porters in the second version of the "Rose" paint scheme so I was really looking forward to the Athearn Coal Porters because they were in the first version of the "Rose" paint scheme.  Athearn's HO Coal Porters and the artwork for the N Coal Porters both had the rose and red stripe correctly shown on the rotary end for the single rotary coupler cars.  When the 15 Athearn cars arrived, they looked great, but were all decorated as double rotary cars!  And, only one car had the correct number for a double rotary car.  The 14 other cars were numbered for single rotary cars.

The first two emails to Athearn resulted in what appeared to be automated replies that did not address the problem.  I did not even get a reply to my third email.      

[cfritschle]

Carter, the think @jagged ben is referring to the era in time where the Long Runners wore the TT yellow scheme (and wanting to see photos with trailers) and not the TTX post 91 scheme, rather than whether they actually carried 3x 53' trailers.

I'm looking and I have one in a magazine I need to find, but here's some early 90s patch-outs I found quickly:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96383454@N00/26478860179/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96383454@N00/38200240896/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96383454@N00/44083533200/

Since they started the conversions in 1988, I think it says more about that blackspot era of photography that is still sitting in attics and not published (print or internet) yet.

Thank you!  Now that I know what to look for, I will check my older photos to see if any of those have the Long Runners with three 53-ft trailers.