A Couple of Questions for Pennsy Experts....

[ChristianJDavis1]

Fun fact. PRR steam numbers were an insane jumble.
I don't know what they were doing back in the day, but they seemingly just used a random number generator when assigning numbers to locomotives.

I may be very wrong, but I remember reading that originally PRR steam engines would receive the next available number, either being an unused number or if a locomotive was retired, it's number would be put back into the "pool." So if an engine was built, it would receive the next available number, even if the locomotive the number prior was assigned to wasn't in the same class. Lower numbers were reserved for lines east, while lines west would have higher numbers (above  5000?).

[Point353]

You brought up the E7’s, which is what I was referring.

Are you saying that the E7 locos were used in freight service after the E8 locos arrived?

[Missaberoad]

Bob,

What part of the PRR does your project focus on? What era? Is it just a train, a module or a whole layout? For you or someone else?

Kind of like saying I have a UP project, can mean a whole lot of things! 

[Lemosteam]

Are you saying that the E7 locos were used in freight service after the E8 locos arrived?

The PRR used power any way they wanted, and yes I have read of re-gearing examples too.

[Point353]

The PRR used power any way they wanted, and yes I have read of re-gearing examples too.

Those E7 locos are on a passenger train: http://godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=384
Where did you read of the E7 locos being re-geared?

[nickelplate759]

I'm no Pennsy expert, but a few observations:

PRR E units were originally painted DGLE, and used in passenger service.  Tuscan (various schemes) came later.
The E7 5880 in the picture referenced below has a coupler cover. This cover would not have been used in a unit reassigned to freight service.
Early PRR E units had the 5-stripes carried over the windows (you can just make this out on the E7 5880, and its clear on the E7 5863, E7 5901 and in the E8 5799 pictures).  This is an indicator of early (passenger service) units.

I don't know if PRR ever regeared E units for freight service.  Other railroads certainly did.   However, the examples in this thread all appear to be in passenger service.

[Missaberoad]

Here's a relevant quote from Bill Volkmer on the PRR io group...

Now for the story about the E units on trailer trains.  That ill-fated caper was instituted while I was assigned to Canton Diesel  Shop, which would pinpoint it as being about February 1964.   With all the train-offs, there was a surplus of E units on the passenger side so sets of three were assigned to TT-1 and TT2.  I managed to get in one shot of TT2 coming through Canton and a very cloudy day and the idea was scuttled before I had the opportunity to take more photographs.

The reason they cancelled the act was because they flashed over several main generators in the process.  Whereas the freight units all made backwards transition, the passenger units did not.   What that means, in layman's terms, is that if the train was say, accelerating in notch eight and the engineman wanted to go at a slower speed without using air, on a freight unit, he merely reduced the throttle setting from notch 8 to say notch 6 and as the train slowed, the locomotive "shifted gears" (electrically of course) to compensate for the slower speed.   Remember, the passenger units did NOT have dynamic brake so the freight enginemen were  not accustomed to operating units without dynamic brake,

So the correct method in the above circumstances using a passenger unit in freight service would be to go from Notch 8 to OFF and then bring the throttle back out to Notch 6.  Doing it incorrectly resulted in the distinct possibility of the main generator flashing over, which of course necessitated a trip to Juniata for a generator change out.

[Lemosteam]

I'm no Pennsy expert, but a few observations:

PRR E units were originally painted DGLE, and used in passenger service.  Tuscan (various schemes) came later.
The E7 5880 in the picture referenced below has a coupler cover. This cover would not have been used in a unit reassigned to freight service.
Early PRR E units had the 5-stripes carried over the windows (you can just make this out on the E7 5880, and its clear on the E7 5863, E7 5901 and in the E8 5799 pictures).  This is an indicator of early (passenger service) units.

I don't know if PRR ever regeared E units for freight service.  Other railroads certainly did.   However, the examples in this thread all appear to be in passenger service.

I am likely mistaken based on the quote above. Might have been my F series books,

You are correct about the early paint as well. But it did not last long, pee was phasing out the gold leaf paint which is what is on these green DGLE units.

Robert’s question is too general, but in general, Tuscan was the color of choice for passenger diesels. I.e., just because there were DGLE ones photographed, does not indicate the norm.

And the cars behind that train do not look like B60b or any other head end train, unless those were X29 mail cars, which they very well could be.

Just read a passage in Pennsylvania Power III, that all E7 and E8 were painted DGLE, except for the last batch of E8 orders, but all units that were Shopped, were repainted Tuscan thereafter.  So depending on how long they were in service till their fist shopping, that would be the only time ther were DGLE.

[robert3985]

My apologies for not getting back here sooner.  I've been wrapped up in the NMRA show this weekend here (Northern Utah Division) and haven't been home much.

I can't divulge much about the Pennsy project other than to say the customer wants both Brunswick Green and Tuscan Red engines.  He offered to provide equivalent colors in Tru-Color paint, but I do all of my painting using ScaleCoat II, which, except for curing time, is easier and faster for me than Tru-Color. 

I have also heard from a number of sources that Tru-Color's color matches aren't that great.  I don't have a problem with their UP colors, but I know from my own tests that ScaleCoat's colors for UP are spot-on...and I don't have any Pennsy engines sitting in Riverdale Yard (that I know of) to go down and compare paint swatches against real paint like I did for UP colors.

Frankly, I enjoy the banter and the information divulged and discussed here, and my conclusions at this point is that ScaleCoat's colors are going to be okay...so that question is answered.

The Pennsy vs UP's numbering protocol is a total surprise, and I find it highly interesting since it is such a contrast to UP's very strict numbering system, but answers my second question perfectly.

Just to be clear, Brunswick Green was applied earlier than Tuscan Red...correct?  On engines that had hand-rails and end platforms, some of these railings were painted yellow??  Like UP painting their grey railings white in some places for safety...right? 

Was the yellow safety paint on railings used on both green and red engines?

Would the yellow safety paint also have been used on the outer face of pilot steps going up to the end platforms?

Were the step treads painted a different color than the car body color?

I'll be stripping the shells later today after I get back from the NMRA show and start painting Tuesday if my ScaleCoat arrives by then.

Any other pointers?  Yes...I know I'm being taciturn, but can't say much more about the project than I already have. 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Chris333]

I would just go off of photos.

[Mark5]

Just to be clear, Brunswick Green was applied earlier than Tuscan Red...correct? 

Yes - for passenger diesels. The red started in late 1952: https://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/index.php/tpm/latest-articles-blog/111-history-of-passenger-diesel-paint-schemes

Freight locos never got the "red" (as far as I know).

Mark

[Lemosteam]

Yes - for passenger diesels. The red started in late 1952: https://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/index.php/tpm/latest-articles-blog/111-history-of-passenger-diesel-paint-schemes

Freight locos never got the "red" (as far as I know).

Mark

Except for a single VO1000 switcher. Passenger or freight cab units in either color did not get safety yellow handrails as shon in all of the pics here.. 

Agree pics are your best friend.

[muktown128]

 Robert,

I'm no PRR expert, but I have a few books and have looked at lots of photos.  I've never seen a pic of a cab unit (with yellow railings or steps.  The only pics I've seen of PRR units with yellow paint on the ends of the railings or steps are hood units and switchers.  As noted by others, DGLE would have been used before Tuscan Red.  The only F units painted Tuscan Red were the FP-7's (not strictly freight units)...

DGLE painted passenger units would have a 5 stripe scheme.  Tuscan Red painted passenger units started with a 5 stripe scheme, then a single wide stripe, then no stripe (keystone only) scheme in the 60's.

Don't forget about the trainphone antennae and the lift rings on the nose.