New Kato motor

[MK]

And speaking about Victor Miranda, what ever happened to him?  Last on was June 2, 2017.

[reinhardtjh]

And speaking about Victor Miranda, what ever happened to him?  Last on was June 2, 2017.

He's alive and well other places.  A few months ago on the Facebook PRR Modeler's page @Lemosteam tried to get him to come back to post on some thread (I can't remember which) but Victor was able to fend off the effort.

[Mark5]

Mark, what is the problem with that motor?  Yes, 3-poles, but it is the only skew-wound motor Kato uses in American-proto locos, with very strong rare-earth magnets, while the 5-pole motors utilize standard ceramic magnets, and are straight-wound.

With skew-wound 3 poles there should not be any appreciable cogging, and with the strong magnets, there should be ample torque.  I also really don't see that much difference between any current 3- and 5-pole hobby motors.  Yes, in the early days of N scale, there were plenty of sub-par (by today's standards) 3-pole motors, but I don't believe that this is the case anymore.  I seem to recall that even our esteemed N scale motor expert, Victor Miranda conceded that a good skew-wound 3-poler performs as well as a 5-pole motor.  I agree.

I don't recall Victor saying that.  It was with Victor that I witnessed these motors. Anyway, we've been around the block more than a few times on this matter.

IIRC, Kato corrected the other problem on the GS4.

[peteski]

I don't recall Victor saying that.  It was with Victor that I witnessed these motors. Anyway, we've been around the block more than a few times on this matter.

IIRC, Kato corrected the other problem on the GS4.

Allrigthy then - thanks for the explanation.    I think you mean FEF3 (which uses Kato's coreless wonder).

Some of us like chicken, some beef. I'm a pork man myself.     IMO, that GM3 motor is more than adequate for the job.  It is a small wonder with a big-motor "soul". I wonder how it would do with you under a double-blind test? 

Actually I have a problem with the Kato's coreless motor in the FEF3 and ESU LokSound4 decoder.  I can't get it to run smoothly on all speeds, and the minimum speed is too fast.  I even consulted with Kelley (who at that time worked for Kato and did the decoder installs and tuning of the Kobo FEF3 installs). He gave me a copy of the ESU sound project he used for those and I'm still not happy with the loco's performance (even after trying additional motor control tweaks).  I bet if FEF3 used the GM3 motor, the ESU decoder would have no problem controlling it well.

[Mark5]

Allrigthy then - thanks for the explanation.    I think you mean FEF3 (which uses Kato's coreless wonder).

Nah, I mean the GS4. I haven't seen the FEF run in person.

I wonder how it would do with you under a double-blind test? 

I would welcome the test! The newest 3 polers are impressive - I'll grant that. But for now, I still haven't met a 3 poler that I liked. (Come on Pete, the world needs more poles!  )

[peteski]

(Come on Pete, the world needs more poles!  )

LOL!  You do have a point. 

[Mark5]

GM3 is the motor that Kato used in the American GS4 steam loco, and also in the NW2 switcher, so drop-in replacements for American prototype are limited.
But if that motor is as good as the hype, since it is smaller than GM5, it could be retrofitted into locos that use GM5 motors.

A new run of the GS4 is out - I'm wondering if they used the new motor (probably not  ).

[peteski]

A new run of the GS4 is out - I'm wondering if they used the new motor (probably not  ).

You are likely correct.  I suppose someone could contact Kato USA and ask.  Too bad that Kelley (nightmare0331) no longer works there - he would know for sure.

[nightmare0331]

You are likely correct.  I suppose someone could contact Kato USA and ask.  Too bad that Kelly (nightmare0331) no longer works there - he would know for sure.

I have 50 of the newest run ones here for LokSound installation.

I'll pull one apart later and get pics for you Peteski

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[peteski]

I have 50 of the newest run ones here for LokSound installation.

I'll pull one apart later and get pics for you Peteski

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

Excellent!   Thanks, and Happy 2022 Kelley!
Good to know that Kato retained your services as the Kobo decoder installer.  Do they even still use the Kobo name?

[nightmare0331]

Excellent!   Thanks, and Happy 2022 Kelley!
Good to know that Kato retained your services as the Kobo decoder installer.  Do they even still use the Kobo name?

Slight correction on this...Kato opted to go their own way on this as I have nothing to do with the Kobo project anymore.

I built them their initial GS4 sample before I left that they could use as a guide. 

These ones are for Lombard Hobbies and will be available through them and will feature upgrades that I'm betting Kato USA isn't going to do.

The Lombard GS4's with LokSound will feature separate independent mars light, changing out those horrible greenish orange LED's and installation of rear light.

Basically, they will receive this treatment minus the revised drivers, which the new run already has, and the install will be a bit more refined....

I have a feeling that 50 number will increase drastically also.

Oh well...never a dull moment or shortage of projects to work on. 

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[Mark5]

Ah so this is an original run unit, potentially with that driver defect.

Thanks Kelley!

UPDATE: I checked the Kato parts site, and they only list one motor (926055), so I guess the current run is still the Triple. 

This seems consistent with what C62-2 said.

It's a drop in replacement for the GM3 motor, so you can upgrade older models. It will be available at the Kato store at the end of the month, and in new models starting with releases in June or July (-ish).

Mark

[nightmare0331]

so I cracked open a most recent run GS4 (well, I started cracking open many, but I digress...)

A few observations on the most recent run...they recycled/rereleased previous stock numbers so you might find earlier units out there with the same stock numbers but earlier features.

In this case, this is a recent run of 126-0307 (4 sku's were recently released 126-0307, 126-0308, 126-0309, 126-0310)  126-0308 and 126-0309 are 'postwar black' that had actually been announced with the wartime black units that were originally announced with different stock numbers but cancelled in 2008 as the economy collapsed.  The wartime black ones were made, but not in very large quantities.  (126-0303, 126-0304)

Okay...I'm starting to head off on a side tangent here...

The most recent run....

The motor is exactly same as previous runs of GS4's.

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The drivers on all 4 sku's are of the revised type (obviously).

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In an unexpected surprise, they finally molded plastic boiler and cab grab irons instead of the metal ones with plastic mounting pegs.  Back in the day we had discussed this on previous runs.  Apparently someone on the manufacturing side realized that it easier to tool a new part (or parts) for the assembly process.  The long vertical cab grabs remain wire.

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Obviously, the tender still has the same wanky setup to take an EM13 style decoder board and the L shaped clips and upper drawbar that is prone to electrical failures.

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Anywhoo...I thought I was done with ever touching one of these models yet here I am surrounded by a pile of them again.   

Hope the pictures and overview helps!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[peteski]

Oh well Kelley, Kato's loss of you seems like it is your gain (since you seem to still be doing large quantities of decoder installs/customization).

Thanks for the quick overview of the new GS4 release. To be honest, I have no problem with that skew 3-pole motor with rare earth magnets, but some people seem to be hung up on the "3-pole" thing.  I'm curious about what you think of that motor.

I also wonder if the "new" driver bearings will be prone to dislodging from their seats in the chassis, like the GS4 redesigned replacement drivers did (that Kato sold to replace the cracking-prone original drivers). Max Magliaro developed a styrene insert to prevent that from occuruing.

[nightmare0331]

Oh well Kelley, Kato's loss of you seems like it is your gain (since you seem to still be doing large quantities of decoder installs/customization).

Thanks for the quick overview of the new GS4 release. To be honest, I have no problem with that skew 3-pole motor with rare earth magnets, but some people seem to be hung up on the "3-pole" thing.  I'm curious about what you think of that motor.

I also wonder if the "new" driver bearings will be prone to dislodging from their seats in the chassis, like the GS4 redesigned replacement drivers did (that Kato sold to replace the cracking-prone original drivers). Max Magliaro developed a styrene insert to prevent that from occuruing.

I never noticed an issue with the motor personally.  Out of all of the shortcomings I ever saw with the model, the motor wasn't one of them.

As for the units that the bearings slip out of (only seems to be on the 4th (rear) driver, the fix I was using...take a round plastic swizel stick, cut a small chunk, slice down one side and insert over the driver axle between the bearings making sure there is a bit of play.  Install in model and viola.  Same idea as a styrene insert...it kept the bearings from slipping out of place.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com